As an American Jew who grew up in a Zionist community immediately post WW2, I stand with Jenn. I have been referring to October 7 as a jail break for a community in prison. If Palestine is in jail, there will always be unrest. Right wing Israelis have forgotten that everyone needs to be free before anyone can be free.
Thank you for this response Greg. I have been a student and practitioner of Kingian non-violence for 25 years, but I very much understand why violent oppression leads to violent resistance. And certainly that cycle is just causing more bloodshed, grief, and entrenchment. Nothing radicalizes people and makes them see their neighbors as their enemies like a cycle of violent attacks.
Jenn you have a deeply humanistic take on this sad scary time, and it's a brave stand you are taking so publicly. I was in Israel and also Palestine for a month in 1996, the site of Rabin's death was full of flowers and mourning all the time. Israel felt like a very open democracy, people even arguing in the streets re: issues of Palestinians, peace, freedom, understanding - it was impressive in a way I will never forget and which I believe goes on now, despite hard-liners like Netanyahu. I was introduced to the Women in Black peace movement, developed by Israeli Jewish women bearing witness to the need for peace with the Palestinian people. This Women in Black silent peace stand concept spread to conflicts all over the world (even adopted by Italian women in Italy over the senselessness of mafia killings at that time). It is frustrating to see people all around us using complex ages-long conflicts to take "sides", just adding fuel to that fire of hate. It's a lonely place to stand in the face of conflict and suggest that people need to talk to each other and begin to accept each other as humans first, not as enemies. Peace & all good to you!
What might have been if Yitzhak Rabin had not been murdered in 1995? And if Netanyahu had not been almost non-stop in power ever since? Not perfect, but Rabin - that very fearless soldier - had decided to listen closely with open heart to examining all avenues for peace. It has been an even more dangerous road ever since his murder. People on all sides nurturing their grievances have led to this horrible moment right now, and as MLK said "hate doesnt conquor hate, only love does that".
I was at Sandwich Hut today for lunch and they had a sign in the window with that MLK quote, I felt it as a balm in my soul. In my experience repeated trauma does not put most people in the mindset of empathetic, open-hearted listening. So every time things flare up in this region and there are more bombing campaigns, people on both sides of the dig in and peace gets farther away. I wasn't paying too much attention to mideast politics before 1995, I was still in high school, but I do know that since then it has felt like peace was less in reach with each passing year.
Jenn’s framing ignores 80 years of recent history in the region (and a couple thousand before that). Americans, progressive Americans, and American Jews should stand unequivocally with Israel against terrorism, against radical Islamic ideology, and against anti-semitism. What is happening to civilians in both Israel and Gaza is terrible - but to blame Israel alone is nonsensical. We need to provide humanitarian aid in Gaza and look for the long term solution that has evaded us for decades. In the meantime, Israel must defend itself to prevent more terrorist attacks and keep its own population safe. Israel is trying to rescue hostages while Hamas is holding all of Gaza hostage as a 2-million-human shield. The Palestinians are oppressed for sure, but largely by their own leadership.
The “I support Palestine” framing is the problem. There is no moral equivalence between Israel and Hamas. I support the right of innocent Palestinians to live a better life, but first and foremost I support Israel.
I will admit I haven’t thought it through that deeply, but just as saying, “Black Lives Matter” does not mean other lives don’t matter, so it seems possible to me to say “I stand with Palestine” and not be saying, “I stand against the existence of Israel.”
Hi Steve, I’m an undergrad student in Providence and really appreciate your coverage of fighting injustice happening every day. I wanted to share a collection of resources I’ve made: https://linktr.ee/oakfabric. I am not trying to get in an online argument with anyone so specifically hope to share with anyone who’s on the fence, anyone who consumes Western media and senses any intuitive dissonance between what it feels like to witness justice and what we are witnessing now. The creation and expansion of Israel has, like the creation of the US, depended structurally on the forcible displacement of the indigenous inhabitants of the land (Palestinians). To learn the patterns of settler colonialism in practice historically and currently around the world, its relationship with tools like ethnic cleansing and mass incarceration, is part of understanding recent events. Also helpful, as Steinfeld mentions, is the study of how and why generational trauma gets recreated down the line. As has been the call in movements for the rights of Black, Brown, Indigenous, trans, disabled folks, women, etc, my main advice is to seek out the perspective of folks who have been historically dispossessed, in this case Palestinians. Thanks for reading my note and continuing truly meaningful work for our community!
Jeff, I can feel the pain in your response - because I feel it myself, when I look at my people under attack. And much like I don’t feel that the State of Israel or the Netanyahu government represents the viewpoints of all Israelis, I don’t believe that Hamas or its actions are supported by all Palestinians. We know a little about having a government that doesn’t represent our viewpoints and takes actions against our beliefs and values as Americans of conscience as well. Perhaps I should have said “I stand with the Palestinian people” rather than “I stand with Palestine”, but I definitely do not stand with Hamas.
I appreciate that Jenn, and I know for sure you don’t support Hamas. To Steve’s point, I would have no problem with “Palestinian Lives Matter” (because they do). “I stand with the Palestinian people” is ok, but even then “I stand” connotes (at least for me) taking sides. If I’m taking sides here, I stand with Israel, even though I agree that its current government is as abhorrent as our last administration. And I think we all wish for peace for everyone in that tortured region.
Yes, may we all know what Dr. King called a positive peace indicating the presence of justice, not a negative peace from the absence of tension. I am really valuing our ability to have a civil discourse here, in public no less, something I have found to be all too rare on this issue. And in that spirit I offer this not to convince you but to provide my rationale for choosing to speak up now and in this way. When Hamas came across the border and committed unspeakable violence, I did not feel at all implicated by that. I didn't stand up and immediately decry that terrorist attack because I am not a world leader, and I felt like it was clear that I did not support the murder of civilians in their homes. At that moment I felt like all people of conscience and empathy were on the same side against senseless murder. However, when Israel's retaliation began, and when they started to use dehumanizing language like Palestinians are dogs who should be shot in the street, and presented themselves as speaking for all Jews everywhere; when American politicians spoke out in unilateral support of Israel's campaign of violent retribution, and when an evacuation order that was impossible to comply with was issued, I felt like (and still do) that if I didn't say "not in my name, and not in the names of my ancestors" I was and am implicated in those actions. I definitely feel like we have been forced into a place where there are sides, and I cannot stand on the side of large scale military aggression against a civilian population, even when there are terrorists hidden amongst those civilians. This is why I protested and spoke up against the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and have been part of many movements to decrease the militarization of our US budget and domestic policing. This is not to condone violence against Israeli civilians, or against those in the West Bank, or Lebanon, or anywhere else. It is to say that in my experience more violence may subdue resistance but it does not bring lasting peace.
Oct 30, 2023·edited Oct 30, 2023Liked by Jenn Steinfeld
I appreciate your response, and I fully understand the “not in my name” feeling. For me, the flip side of that is that the Hamas attack on Israel felt like an attack on my family. Also, I worry that even unintentionally (and sometimes intentionally), the “Free Palestine” movement is fanning the flames of anti-semitism in the US and Europe. I’m not sure how many of the people chanting “from the river to the sea” understand that they are advocating for the destruction of Israel. There are no easy answers here and I don’t expect every progressive or every Jew to have the same opinions. But a cornerstone of my beliefs is Israel’s right to exist and to defend itself.
Jenn, thank you for having the courage to speak up.
Okay -- I am a Progressive Jew, actively Zionist** in the past. My sister has lived in Israel for more than 50 years. I have spent much time there.
The current discourse -- in this country at least -- is horribly lopsided and always has been (compared to Europe.) And now it is being taken to new levels -- watch what AIPAC is doing to literally target anyone who even dares to call for a cease-fire.
And while Jews rightly call out groups that either "support Hamas" or refused to even acknowledge their terrorist attack -- where are the Jewish leaders calling out the rabble rousers who booed Ed Markey at a "pro-Israel" rally for calling for "de-escalation". So I think part of what is happening here is that activists are fed up with the coddling of Israel and -- in some cases -- have taken unconscionable stances.
However people like Jenn and I are just horribly typecast. I am on a listserv with 70 other friends who were in Israel with me 50 years ago, for a year. Two weeks ago I posted a link to a group session (led by an Israeli) to help both Jews, Israelis and Palestinians process this collective trauma and hear each other. The pushback "You are taking sides" was disheartening (and predictable.)
So to Jeff's point -- It did not bother me that Jen said "I stand with Palestine" because I knew where she was coming from. However given the current discourse, as Jenn pointed out, perhaps there could have been a more apt title. "One shouldn't have to"...as Jenn said,
And to Jenn -- I am with you -- and Jeff -- as far as the Israeli occupation goes -- which has been "bipartisan" since the beginning.
And Netanyahu especially could care less about the civilians in Gaza.
And that violence begets violence.
On the other hand -- sorry, I see many hands! -- I have the most progressive/activist friends and family in Israel -- and they are at a loss how to respond that is both humane and actively deters Hamas.
They are shattered,
Thank you again for publishing, reading and commenting. So important
** Am I still a Zionist? I don't know. It was a good and necessary/idealistic idea, and one's people's need ending up interfering with another's. The label is irrelevant to me now.
As an American Jew who grew up in a Zionist community immediately post WW2, I stand with Jenn. I have been referring to October 7 as a jail break for a community in prison. If Palestine is in jail, there will always be unrest. Right wing Israelis have forgotten that everyone needs to be free before anyone can be free.
Thank you for this response Greg. I have been a student and practitioner of Kingian non-violence for 25 years, but I very much understand why violent oppression leads to violent resistance. And certainly that cycle is just causing more bloodshed, grief, and entrenchment. Nothing radicalizes people and makes them see their neighbors as their enemies like a cycle of violent attacks.
Jenn you have a deeply humanistic take on this sad scary time, and it's a brave stand you are taking so publicly. I was in Israel and also Palestine for a month in 1996, the site of Rabin's death was full of flowers and mourning all the time. Israel felt like a very open democracy, people even arguing in the streets re: issues of Palestinians, peace, freedom, understanding - it was impressive in a way I will never forget and which I believe goes on now, despite hard-liners like Netanyahu. I was introduced to the Women in Black peace movement, developed by Israeli Jewish women bearing witness to the need for peace with the Palestinian people. This Women in Black silent peace stand concept spread to conflicts all over the world (even adopted by Italian women in Italy over the senselessness of mafia killings at that time). It is frustrating to see people all around us using complex ages-long conflicts to take "sides", just adding fuel to that fire of hate. It's a lonely place to stand in the face of conflict and suggest that people need to talk to each other and begin to accept each other as humans first, not as enemies. Peace & all good to you!
What might have been if Yitzhak Rabin had not been murdered in 1995? And if Netanyahu had not been almost non-stop in power ever since? Not perfect, but Rabin - that very fearless soldier - had decided to listen closely with open heart to examining all avenues for peace. It has been an even more dangerous road ever since his murder. People on all sides nurturing their grievances have led to this horrible moment right now, and as MLK said "hate doesnt conquor hate, only love does that".
I was at Sandwich Hut today for lunch and they had a sign in the window with that MLK quote, I felt it as a balm in my soul. In my experience repeated trauma does not put most people in the mindset of empathetic, open-hearted listening. So every time things flare up in this region and there are more bombing campaigns, people on both sides of the dig in and peace gets farther away. I wasn't paying too much attention to mideast politics before 1995, I was still in high school, but I do know that since then it has felt like peace was less in reach with each passing year.
Jenn’s framing ignores 80 years of recent history in the region (and a couple thousand before that). Americans, progressive Americans, and American Jews should stand unequivocally with Israel against terrorism, against radical Islamic ideology, and against anti-semitism. What is happening to civilians in both Israel and Gaza is terrible - but to blame Israel alone is nonsensical. We need to provide humanitarian aid in Gaza and look for the long term solution that has evaded us for decades. In the meantime, Israel must defend itself to prevent more terrorist attacks and keep its own population safe. Israel is trying to rescue hostages while Hamas is holding all of Gaza hostage as a 2-million-human shield. The Palestinians are oppressed for sure, but largely by their own leadership.
I think it’s wrong to say that the author blames Israel alone for the violence. In fact, it clearly calls the actions of Hamas horrific.
The “I support Palestine” framing is the problem. There is no moral equivalence between Israel and Hamas. I support the right of innocent Palestinians to live a better life, but first and foremost I support Israel.
I will admit I haven’t thought it through that deeply, but just as saying, “Black Lives Matter” does not mean other lives don’t matter, so it seems possible to me to say “I stand with Palestine” and not be saying, “I stand against the existence of Israel.”
Hi Steve, I’m an undergrad student in Providence and really appreciate your coverage of fighting injustice happening every day. I wanted to share a collection of resources I’ve made: https://linktr.ee/oakfabric. I am not trying to get in an online argument with anyone so specifically hope to share with anyone who’s on the fence, anyone who consumes Western media and senses any intuitive dissonance between what it feels like to witness justice and what we are witnessing now. The creation and expansion of Israel has, like the creation of the US, depended structurally on the forcible displacement of the indigenous inhabitants of the land (Palestinians). To learn the patterns of settler colonialism in practice historically and currently around the world, its relationship with tools like ethnic cleansing and mass incarceration, is part of understanding recent events. Also helpful, as Steinfeld mentions, is the study of how and why generational trauma gets recreated down the line. As has been the call in movements for the rights of Black, Brown, Indigenous, trans, disabled folks, women, etc, my main advice is to seek out the perspective of folks who have been historically dispossessed, in this case Palestinians. Thanks for reading my note and continuing truly meaningful work for our community!
Jane may I share this resource list?
yes please do!
Jeff, I can feel the pain in your response - because I feel it myself, when I look at my people under attack. And much like I don’t feel that the State of Israel or the Netanyahu government represents the viewpoints of all Israelis, I don’t believe that Hamas or its actions are supported by all Palestinians. We know a little about having a government that doesn’t represent our viewpoints and takes actions against our beliefs and values as Americans of conscience as well. Perhaps I should have said “I stand with the Palestinian people” rather than “I stand with Palestine”, but I definitely do not stand with Hamas.
I appreciate that Jenn, and I know for sure you don’t support Hamas. To Steve’s point, I would have no problem with “Palestinian Lives Matter” (because they do). “I stand with the Palestinian people” is ok, but even then “I stand” connotes (at least for me) taking sides. If I’m taking sides here, I stand with Israel, even though I agree that its current government is as abhorrent as our last administration. And I think we all wish for peace for everyone in that tortured region.
Yes, may we all know what Dr. King called a positive peace indicating the presence of justice, not a negative peace from the absence of tension. I am really valuing our ability to have a civil discourse here, in public no less, something I have found to be all too rare on this issue. And in that spirit I offer this not to convince you but to provide my rationale for choosing to speak up now and in this way. When Hamas came across the border and committed unspeakable violence, I did not feel at all implicated by that. I didn't stand up and immediately decry that terrorist attack because I am not a world leader, and I felt like it was clear that I did not support the murder of civilians in their homes. At that moment I felt like all people of conscience and empathy were on the same side against senseless murder. However, when Israel's retaliation began, and when they started to use dehumanizing language like Palestinians are dogs who should be shot in the street, and presented themselves as speaking for all Jews everywhere; when American politicians spoke out in unilateral support of Israel's campaign of violent retribution, and when an evacuation order that was impossible to comply with was issued, I felt like (and still do) that if I didn't say "not in my name, and not in the names of my ancestors" I was and am implicated in those actions. I definitely feel like we have been forced into a place where there are sides, and I cannot stand on the side of large scale military aggression against a civilian population, even when there are terrorists hidden amongst those civilians. This is why I protested and spoke up against the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and have been part of many movements to decrease the militarization of our US budget and domestic policing. This is not to condone violence against Israeli civilians, or against those in the West Bank, or Lebanon, or anywhere else. It is to say that in my experience more violence may subdue resistance but it does not bring lasting peace.
I appreciate your response, and I fully understand the “not in my name” feeling. For me, the flip side of that is that the Hamas attack on Israel felt like an attack on my family. Also, I worry that even unintentionally (and sometimes intentionally), the “Free Palestine” movement is fanning the flames of anti-semitism in the US and Europe. I’m not sure how many of the people chanting “from the river to the sea” understand that they are advocating for the destruction of Israel. There are no easy answers here and I don’t expect every progressive or every Jew to have the same opinions. But a cornerstone of my beliefs is Israel’s right to exist and to defend itself.
Hello Steve and Jenn and Jeff!
Jenn, thank you for having the courage to speak up.
Okay -- I am a Progressive Jew, actively Zionist** in the past. My sister has lived in Israel for more than 50 years. I have spent much time there.
The current discourse -- in this country at least -- is horribly lopsided and always has been (compared to Europe.) And now it is being taken to new levels -- watch what AIPAC is doing to literally target anyone who even dares to call for a cease-fire.
And while Jews rightly call out groups that either "support Hamas" or refused to even acknowledge their terrorist attack -- where are the Jewish leaders calling out the rabble rousers who booed Ed Markey at a "pro-Israel" rally for calling for "de-escalation". So I think part of what is happening here is that activists are fed up with the coddling of Israel and -- in some cases -- have taken unconscionable stances.
However people like Jenn and I are just horribly typecast. I am on a listserv with 70 other friends who were in Israel with me 50 years ago, for a year. Two weeks ago I posted a link to a group session (led by an Israeli) to help both Jews, Israelis and Palestinians process this collective trauma and hear each other. The pushback "You are taking sides" was disheartening (and predictable.)
So to Jeff's point -- It did not bother me that Jen said "I stand with Palestine" because I knew where she was coming from. However given the current discourse, as Jenn pointed out, perhaps there could have been a more apt title. "One shouldn't have to"...as Jenn said,
And to Jenn -- I am with you -- and Jeff -- as far as the Israeli occupation goes -- which has been "bipartisan" since the beginning.
And Netanyahu especially could care less about the civilians in Gaza.
And that violence begets violence.
On the other hand -- sorry, I see many hands! -- I have the most progressive/activist friends and family in Israel -- and they are at a loss how to respond that is both humane and actively deters Hamas.
They are shattered,
Thank you again for publishing, reading and commenting. So important
** Am I still a Zionist? I don't know. It was a good and necessary/idealistic idea, and one's people's need ending up interfering with another's. The label is irrelevant to me now.
Rich Streitfeld