Saturday's Senate District 28 Candidate Forum

Four of the five candidates running for the office attended as they seek the seat vacated by State Senator Joshua Miller, who has not endorsed in this race...

[L to R] Lammis Vargas, Bernice Morris, Melissa Carden, and Darrèll Brown,

The Boston Globe’s Ed Fitzpatrick emceed a Senate District 28 (Providence, Cranston) Candidate Forum on Saturday afternoon at the William Hall Library in Cranston. Candidates Darrèll Brown, Melissa Carden, Bernice Morris, and Lammis Vargas attended. Candidate John Crok Jr. was unable to attend. The candidates are running for the seat being vacated by State Senator Joshua Miller, who has not endorsed in this race.

Clean Water Action, Climate Action Rhode Island, Planned Parenthood Votes! Rhode Island and the Rhode Island Working Families Party partnered to host the event.

The following has been edited for clarity:

Ed Fitzpatrick: We've had another summer of multiple environmental crises in the Allens Avenue area from fires at Rhode Island Recycled Metals to a flipped tanker on the 95 on ramp. What would you do to address concerns about air and other types of pollution at the Port?

Darrèll Brown: Allen's Avenue. I am the Vice President of the Rhode Island Conservation Law Foundation (CLF), an environmental organization. We sue polluters, we advocate on behalf of our membership, and we spent quite a bit of time at the General Assembly and with the community.

Allens Avenue has been a problem for a while now. We are currently in litigation against Shell Oil [to make them] fortify the terminals there in case of a breach. We know that those terminals are not fortified against climate change so we are in court now holding them accountable for that. I was on vacation on July 10th and on my vacation time I went down to Allen's Avenue in my capacity as vice president for the Conservation Law Foundation and I saw what was happening down there.

That wasn't the first fire or the second fire, that was the third fire. I have my lawyers in court now dealing with a bad actor who for years has not done what they needed to do to prevent those fires down there. We are addressing that in my capacity as Vice President of the Conservation Law Foundation. We're also working with Brown University, Air Quality Matters, and Breathe Providence. We've been working with the environmental justice community for over three years.

We know that in Rhode Island we have some of the worst air quality. We've got kids and other folks having respiratory issues. We know that poor air quality will affect your health and we've been down there working with Brown University getting air quality monitoring systems up in and around the port and in the community because the community is suffering because of poor air quality. That is the work we're doing.

Melissa Carden: If I were to be elected to this role, there is an environmental justice law that's been championed by Senator Dawn Euer and the legislation must get passed. That would be at the top of my agenda. One of the things [the legislation] will do is hold these companies responsible for the level of pollution that they're creating in the communities and do that by taking away permits and that sort of thing. Getting that environmental justice bill passed should be a priority and would be a priority for me. I'm good at building coalitions. I work as the executive director of the Rhode Island Coalition Against Gun Violence. We recently passed a safe storage bill. Coalition building is important because we need many nonprofits, legislators, constituents, and advocates working together to solve these problems. The bad actor needs to be closed down and I know the Attorney General is working on it. I have faith in him and his staff, but it needs to happen sooner rather than later.

Bernice Morris: This is an environmental justice issue. It's no surprise that Rhode Island Recycled Metals is in a black and brown community of the district and is polluting the air and water in the district. So yes, the environmental act needs to pass and you do that by organizing with the community. As Melissa said, you have to work with legislators, you've got to work with the community, and you have to be out in the street talking to the people that are impacted the most by these pollutants. Part of that is educating them about what's happening and the other part is getting them excited about being part of the change. [That's] something that I do in my work all the time and would continue to do in the General Assembly

Lammis Vargas: The port is definitely critical and vital for the economic development of Rhode Island, however, the word “bad actors” was used and [Rhode Island Recycled Metals] is a bad actor. The Port has to be held accountable also the businesses there, particularly the scrapyard. There were plenty of fires [but] it continued to stay open. It has to close. It was closed down then [allowed to reopen.] This is what happens. We need to continue to have corporate responsibility and accountability and as your state senator, I will make sure that legislation is passed to protect not just the environment, but our Narragansett Bay and the Pawtuxet River, which flows right there.

We have kids that are swimming there in the bay when they capsize at the Community Boathouse [and] the Edgewood Yacht Club. They all use those waters there. The waters are right behind our backyard when they're in sailing programs and we have a safe bay that's right there. This ripple effects right into our bay and our waters. When it comes down to Port, that scrapyard should be closed, should remain closed, and we should have corporate accountability from the City of Providence and every one of us as state delegators and from the City of Cranston as well because even though the Port is in Providence, we do have a part of Cranston, where there's Bayview Avenue and Narragansett Street that go right into the water. Those hazardous pollutants coming through the air may be invisible - we may not see them - but are affecting every resident that's there.

It's also going into Washington Park. I've been door-knocking in Washington Park, there's a language barrier there. I'm Latina, I speak Spanish. And some of them are telling me that they may not be able to speak in front of everyone and tell them how they feel about the health hazards they have, particularly kids with asthma. It's attacking them. It's affecting them. The scrapyard should be closed down and we should continue to work on advocating for the corporate responsibility every business there must have.

Ed Fitzpatrick: Rhode Island is ranked 10th in the country for having people involved in our criminal legal system and consistently ranks in the top five states for the highest number of residents on probation per capita. What reforms do you support so that fewer Rhode Islanders spend significant portions of their lives under the watch of the state's criminal legal system?

Lammis Vargas: That's a very important question. I have a bachelor's degree in justice studies from Rhode Island College. In terms of reform, probation is part of it and we need to assess that. We have marginalized communities that are being affected. We need to make sure that we work together with our police officers, but most importantly with the community, nonprofit organizations, and reentry programs so folks that are coming out of the prison system have housing, are being educated, and there's a pathway to success. That's where I envision reform in terms of the probation system. We need to work with many of the different communities. We forget the marginalized communities as you're coming out and if there's no path to reentry into our community - our society - we are just failing folks.

There's the housing and the healthcare part of it that has to be done, [but] there's the education component as well. I also believe [in] educating folks while they're incarcerated, providing them with education, guidance, and reentry so they have a transition to success as they're coming into our community. As residents of the city, we should be doing our due diligence to make sure that we advocate for probation.

I did a program called Leadership Rhode Island, and one of the things we did was visit the reentry program on Broad Street and the south side. I had the firsthand chance to speak to a lot of the folks that were coming in. They were talking to me about probation. It is a friction that has to be revisited perhaps even through the Senate Judiciary Committee and any other task force must work hand in hand as well as the Juvenile Hearing Boards that exist throughout the entire city.

Bernice Morris: This is a big issue. So you might not know that there is no reentry system in Rhode Island to speak of. I'm a member of the Rhode Island Reentry Alliance. It's a group of organizations and leaders that are trying to work towards that end. A lot of what Lammis said is true. We need to have a system that looks at all of those pieces - the housing piece, the education piece, helping people get back to work, helping people get the medical care and behavioral health care that they need - those are all critical pieces of a reentry system that does not exist in Rhode Island. To have so many people be under supervised release - that's crazy, right? That doesn't make sense. If people are coming out and with the right support, they wouldn't have to have such a high level of supervision and they could get back to their life.

The truth is, these folks are coming back to our communities. They're going to get released and they're going to come back to our communities. So the best thing we can do is have a system supporting them. I'm a Senior Director at Crossroads Rhode Island, and many of the men being released in Rhode Island are ending up at the doors of Harrington Hall and coming to our shelter because they don't have anywhere to go. These are critical issues. We have some reentry organizations that are doing amazing work in Rhode Island - Providence mainly, - and we need more of that. But it needs to be a system that is visible to people being released so they know where they can go and what they can do to get their lives back together. That means that we have to work with programs, legislators, corrections, probation, and parole, and work toward a system that is equitable and fair when people are being released.

Melissa Carden: I would say the good news on this topic is that there is a lot of education happening. You were there, Bernice, when they did the training at the State House, and I was fortunate to be able to participate. It's a reentry simulation that Heather Gaydos from Lifespan organized. What it is is you go in and you pretend that you've just gotten out of prison and you have to set up your life. There are different stations - there's your probation officer, there's the job table, there's the childcare table - and you have to figure that out with nothing - sometimes they might give you $6 or they might give you a bus pass. Having done that opened my eyes to how can you with nothing, start a life over again? It's impossible.

In my simulation, I had a baby. If you're going on a job interview and you have a baby and you don't have daycare and you don't have the money for the bus, you don't have your ID - The idea is people should have these things before they leave prison so they can go out and start to build healthy lives. The good thing is that there is this huge education effort happening and it's happening at the State House and people like Bernice, Crossroads, and Heather Gaydos -there are people educating people as to the importance of this. There's a huge stigma, obviously, too. But when you do a simulation like that, you realize what the challenges are. And if you're not a privileged person, it's impossible to overcome those obstacles. But there is hope, like I said, and many people are working on it and it has to continue.

Darrèll Brown: Mass incarceration is the real issue here - reducing the recidivism rate. I'm a lawyer - a former prosecutor and received my BA in Administration of Justice and Recidivism. As we know, when most folks are released, a lot of them, unfortunately, end up back in prison. The reason for that is that we're not focusing on how we train, retrain, educate, provide job opportunities, or take care of health issues as folks are released back into the community. And until we improve on that, it's going to be a continuing problem.

What I will do is work with and continue to challenge. What I will do is work with experts in the field. I am not an expert in this field, but I know who to bring together to have conversations about this and address this issue.

Mass incarceration is where we need to start because a lot of people are being put in prison for minor offenses for a long time. It's related to the war on drugs. If we can address those issues, we can deal with this issue a whole lot better. In dealing with recidivism, we have to get down to the real nitty gritty - healthcare, housing, and jobs, making sure that when folks come out, they're not thrown out into the community and just left to their own devices. That does not work. It's proven not to work, and we have to do a better job of that.

Ed Fitzpatrick: On Thursday, I covered the speech that Minnesota Governor Tim Walz gave in Newport at a fundraiser. I ran into Senator Joshua Miller, who's here today, and I asked him what question he would ask you. He replied, “If you win this seat, you'll have to attend Senate sessions at four o'clock a couple of times a week up at the State House.” He added that there's a lot more to the job, a lot more time and effort are required. He wanted to know how much capacity and commitment you have to do that part of the job.

Darrèll Brown: I have full capacity. One, I live in the community and I work in Providence. My office is one or two blocks from the State House. I can go to work, do my job, and at four o'clock I can leave my office and walk down Smith Street and I can be where I need to be within 10 minutes. It is not a problem. Fortunately, my wife supports me, and the Conservation Law Foundation, while they cannot endorse me, fully supports me in this effort and I am fully committed. Time is not a problem. I can be there at four o'clock or three o'clock and I'll stay till noon if that's what's needed. Please tell Josh I said that.

Melissa Carden: I too work in Providence and I am the type of person who gets a lot of things done. I serve on the board of the Edgewood Waterfront Preservation Association. I serve on the board of the Roger Williams Park Conservancy. For the past couple of years, I've been a regular presence at the State House advocating for gun safety. I'm used to the late nights and the hearings and the level of commitment that it takes. I'm ready and I'll hit the ground running.

Bernice Morris: Like I said, I'm a Senior Director at Crossroads Rhode Island. It is a busy job, but I spend most nights in the community. So I am outside supporting things in the community many nights of the week. With this job, I'll be doing that from the State House instead and I welcome that.

Lammis Vargas: Throughout my career, I've been able to balance work, life, family, and public service. I've been on the city council for the last six years. I'm the council vice president of which I was voted on by my peers. I've been on this council for the last six years, and in those six years, that is part of what I've been managing to do. And so with that strength that I have, I will be given 100% over the Senate seat just as I am during my daytime job. And so while we all have daytime jobs, we're able to multitask that. And that's a great thing about possibly being a superwoman and every one of us. But my commitment is 100% with the Senate. When I made this decision along with my family, it was not a decision that I said, I was going to do it just to do it.

It was a decision that I made, I'm going to apply my experience and my leadership skills to the state Senate so that I can continue to champion and advocate for all the things that I've done in the last six years along with my city council colleagues. So I do have that flexibility. I will be there at four if I'm needed at three, I'm needed at 2:00 PM That is not a problem. And just in case for anyone who may be questioning, I do work in the city of Somerville. I work in the city of Somerville in Massachusetts, and I do work remotely. And there are days that I do go in, but I also have that opportunity and that blessing that was given to me by Mayor Ballantine in the city of Somerville to say, you run and you make sure any flexibility, you d. So I live right on 35. Betsy Williams Drive. I work remotely has not been an issue in the last six years when I worked. As I stand before you as the city council, and vice president and I will continue to have that commitment and be that voice I'll Senate 28 that will represent Washington Park, that will represent South Elmwood and the Cranston community as well. I would not be sitting here with you today if I did not have that 100% commitment. I just wanted to make sure that I was clear about this response.

Ed Fitzpatrick: In 2021, the General Assembly passed the Act on Climate making the state's goals for reducing greenhouse gas emissions mandatory and enforceable, but environmental groups say on-the-ground action and implementations are not on track. More legislation or enforcement may be needed to get state agencies and economic sectors to reduce emissions and shift to clean energy. What do you think should be done to ensure Rhode Island makes progress?

Lammis Vargas: We need to continue working with our climate sustainability programs. The City of Providence has a climate sustainability division. I'm looking forward to other municipalities to pretty much do the same. That is extremely important. I have one in the city that I work for and it's been working greatly. We have a RIPTA charging station that just opened up not too long ago, right over here on the Broad Street side of Cranston. We need to make sure that we continue to work with corporations to make sure that they're held accountable and make sure that any technical climate change is being done correctly and not causing any type of hazards or pollutants to our air. We need to continue to make sure that we protect our bay.

On the city council, we were probably the first two municipalities to ban plastic bags here in the city of Cranston. I'm extremely proud of that. We did that as a council. We have to continue to grow. We have to continue to make sure municipalities [provide] the infrastructure that is needed, making sure that we roll out electric vehicles and hybrids, making sure that's part of the fleet, that infrastructure that is needed throughout the city, and encourage and incentivize companies to make sure that they are part of environmental sustainability here in our state. Climate Jobs Rhode Island created tools as well to make sure that we train the younger generation as well as the adults. We were the first state to put wind turbines, but not only are we adding that infrastructure, but we could train Rhode Islanders to make sure that they are taking a piece of that, being trained so we can continue sustainability. I could add more to it, but I'll defer.

Bernice Morris: I will admit out of the gate, I'm not that familiar with it, but the question seems to be about how we keep moving the needle forward. It's some of what Lammis was saying, some of that work is with the municipalities. But some of that work is organizing, getting people to make noise about it, and coming together about it with the community and legislators. That's the way that we start moving the needle on many issues. The power is with the people. So we need to organize and raise our voices around certain things. If there are pieces of that work that are not moving forward as quickly as we'd like them to, that often is a way to get people to pay attention. Some of the other things that Lammis said are true too, right? Is there accountability somewhere in our corporate businesses or some of the other bad actors might not be doing what they need to do? But it is about the people. The power is with the people. Organize, get people together, educate, and raise their voices so that we can make progress or make progress faster.

Melissa Carden: One thing that we absolutely can and should do is pass the bottle bill next session. That should be a priority. Many of us here have done Bay cleanups and we see all the plastic. We know there's a problem with microplastic. The bottle bill will decrease litter and increase recycling rates. They do it in Massachusetts and Connecticut, and it's way beyond time that we have a bottle bill here.

The other thing we need to do is fully fund RIPTA. RIPTA came out with a report a few years ago and has been challenged in funding over the past few years. It's not only so people who rely on RIPTA can get to work and live their lives, but also, can reach our climate goals. There are different ways that we can fund that, but it needs to be a priority to help us reach our climate goals. Those are two very real things that we can do as early as next year in the next session.

Darrèll Brown: Act on Climate. This is a complicated and complex issue and the implementation of the Act on Climate is the work that I do. This is what I do for a living. It is about how we transition off of oil and gas, what that means, and how we do that. There are three sectors. There's transportation, housing, and the electric sector. What we are doing and what I'm doing now at CLF is working with the EC4 (Executive Climate Change Coordinating Council). EC4 is the organization on the executive side that's responsible for the Act on Climate implementation. We go before the EC4, provide comments, and we're forcing the EC4, as well as state agencies, to put together plans and milestones in terms of how each agency is going to fulfill its obligation to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. It is not easy and it's complicated.

We're before the PUC [Public Utilities Commission] as well on the future of gas. We're there in terms of how we address the future of gas in the state of Rhode Island. What does that look like, both the hard side and the soft side? It is a hard question and right now, I don't mean to be the Grim Reaper, but the State of Rhode Island is woefully behind in meeting its Act on Climate goals. We are nowhere near where we should be.

While we have legislation that we've worked on at the state house, like building decarbonization. Melissa mentioned the bottle bill - we've been working on the bottle bill for the past three years and finally got it into the study commission. Hopefully, it will come out of the study commission. extended producer responsibility. We've been fighting against having incinerators come to Rhode Island. Burning plastics would put greenhouse gas emissions in the air.

The transportation sector is one of the largest sectors that emit greenhouse gas emissions. So not only are we pushing the Department of Transportation to get its act together. There's a lot to say about this because the Department of Transportation isn't doing its job. DOT released plans about how it's going to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and how it's going to comply with the Act on Climate. There's nothing in there about how they're going to do it. They talk about roads and bridges, but they don't talk about how they're going to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

DOT also gas-lights us too, because there was a ribbon-cutting ceremony they invited me to. They said, “Come to this ribbon-cutting ceremony. We're talking about how many EV transmission stations we're going to put in the state.” First of all, we don't even know how many the state needs. They haven't come out with that - there's not even a report card in terms of how the state is meeting its obligation on the Act on Climate and reducing green greenhouse gas emissions.

I didn't go to the ribbon-cutting ceremony. I asked them, “How many are we going to put out there?” “Well,” they replied, “that'll be announced when you get there.” So I didn't go because I didn't like that answer. I sent one of my attorneys, guess how many EV charging stations they installed? Four.

That's the gaslighting that's happening and that's not good. And the last thing - we all have to get involved. We all have to get engaged in this. The community is lackadaisical about the Act on Climate, greenhouse gas emissions, and climate change. Climate change is real. There's flooding, intensity of storms, and high heat. We're seeing that now. We need to pay attention as a community and get engaged not later, but now.

Ed Fitzpatrick: Why do you think opposition to offshore wind has taken hold in our state despite the jobs and economic outcomes being predicted? And what do you think can be done about misinformation and opposition to wind energy?

Darrèll Brown: Again, this is what I do, this is the work that I'm doing. First of all, let me say this. I was Governor Lincoln Almond's policy advisor for Business and Economic Development nearly 20 years ago. We were talking then about offshore wind development. The state, as a matter of public policy, made the decision that we need offshore wind to transition off fossil fuels. That decision was made some 20 years ago. If we do not have offshore wind development, we will not meet our climate goals and objectives. It will not happen.

Now, I picked a fight with an organization called Green Oceans down in Newport. Green Oceans is tied to dark money. Although they do not receive dark money directly, they're in that network. They're in that ecosystem where they use talking points from big oil and gas and those talking points are misrepresentation, misleading, and outright lies.

For example, they say that the wind terminals down there are killing the right whales. There's no evidence of that whatsoever. We know what's killing the right whales: pollution in the water, warming in the water nets, pollution, and plastics. That's what's killing the right whales, not offshore wind. What they're doing, once again, is gaslighting the public, but they're cloaking themselves as an environmental organization. They say they're concerned about the environment, but they mislead. They lie and they misrepresent. That is a big part of the problem. We, at the Conservation Law Foundation, have pushed back on that. I have written an article in which I picked a big fight with the Preservation Society of Newport County in the Newport Daily News. I picked a fight with them about that because they're lying and they're telling people one thing and the facts are very different.

Ed Fitzpatrick: They filed the federal lawsuit, right?

Darrèll Brown: They filed a federal lawsuit, which we almost did an amicus curiae brief on, but we decided not to do that because they dug themselves so deep in this hole they can't pivot out. We're just going to let them fester in it, and we're going to continue to pound and pound and pound away about their lies and their deceit.

Melissa Carden: I think a public education campaign would be a great idea because people don't understand - not just on this topic, but many other topics. It's relatively inexpensive compared to other types of programs, but people need to be educated. We talk about climate change, we talk about climate action, but as individuals, what do we need to be doing? What is the truth? Whether it's a social media or television campaign, involving many nonprofits and state agencies. People must feel invested and even in thinking about fully funding RIPTA, that needs to be a public education campaign too and that is a huge part of us reaching our goals. Growing up in Rhode Island, there's always been a stigma around RIPTA. Having lived in other cities and seen how mass public transportation works and how helpful it is to society - it will help us reach our climate goals. A public education campaign on this topic would be a very smart way to spend our money.

Bernice Morris: I agree with all that. I won't repeat it, but social media getting into schools getting in front of young people and colleges, and talking about the truth about wind energy [is a good idea.] We're always going to combat big money when it comes to what they're putting out for us to take in. They're cloaking themselves as an environmental organization. We know there's a lot of people who know that's not true, but there's also a lot of people who don't know that's not true. [We should] as much as we can, get in front of people through the media, social media, in person, television, YouTube, all of that.

I've been a workforce development professional for 30 years. The other thing would be to highlight workforce development opportunities and what that's going to mean for folks in our community, particularly some of the marginalized communities that are looking for opportunities and need good job training.

Those are family-sustaining wages. These are good jobs, potentially union jobs. As much as we can be working with our workforce partners around the state and our state agencies to fund such programs like Real Jobs and other state funding for adult education and workforce development, [we should] promote that. Promote that in career and tech schools and high schools. There are lots of pathways to a good life and it's not always college for everyone. All of that would be good ways to combat the negative talk about wind energy.

Lammis Vargas: Anyone who's against wind turbines clearly doesn't understand the environmental impact we're living through and the crisis that we're facing right now, nationally and globally. When it comes to education, it's in the schools. It's taking the opportunity to work with Brown's Department of Education, whether it's at the technical schools, as was just said, whether it's starting over, as we have here in Cranston. Cranston West has a technical and vocational school. In Providence, we have the Met. We have so many schools throughout the state. If we're doing education, we need to start doing the education regardless of the zip code somebody lives in.

We have to make sure that we are educating folks from a young age to the older folks. How does the opposition to wind turbines affect our communities? Fossil fuels, as Darrèll mentioned have a huge impact. Let's share a positive campaign and make sure that that has a heavy impact on educating every one of us, but also, we as residents [must understand] the importance of saying what is it that we're able to do.

One of the things that we've also been doing in Cranston is making sure that the tax letters go out at the end of the fiscal year. We have former Councilman Steve Stycos advocating that we also recycle.

In terms of the environment, these are all impacts that affect us. How do we educate our community on the importance of recycling? One of the things that I have started to talk about with a few folks - high school students and even kids in elementary - is that there's not a recycling program here in our city in terms of the schools. How do we do that? I don't want to derail the topic, but I think that's important when it comes down to educating. We have to start young. We have to start at home, and we need to make sure that we work with groups like Climate Jobs Rhode Island as well, a group that has been creating a lot of workforce development to transition folks from high school student graduates who may not want to go into college and provide that unionized, working-class opportunity for everyone.

Ed Fitzpatrick: Now we've got a quick yes or no question. If you are elected, one of the first decisions you'll likely face is whether to support Senate President Dominic Ruggiero, if, as expected, he seeks to remain Senate president. Will you support Ruggiero? Yes or no?

Lammis Vargas: Yes.

Bernice Morris: Yes.

Melissa Carden: Yes.

Darrèll Brown: Yes.

Ed Fitzpatrick: When they go to the polls in November, voters will answer the question, shall there be a convention to amend or revise the [state] Constitution? The debate has raised a lot of issues of what could be on the ballot. Do you support a constitutional convention? How will you vote in November?

Darrèll Brown: I would have a problem opening it up and having a constitutional convention. I would have a problem in opening that up. I think what that will do is bring in dark money. I think that will bring in national public interest groups who could come in and weigh in on issues and it could lead to other problems. I would have a problem with that. I would vote no. I would vote for it because I'm concerned about outside influences and dark money coming in and influencing the process. And once you open that up, you're not just opening it up to one issue. I would be very concerned about that so I will be against it.

Melissa Carden: I also say no to the constitutional convention. There's too much opportunity to go backward. We've made so many strides in Rhode Island, particularly when it comes to abortion, gun safety, and marriage equality. The General Assembly has done a good job and we can't take a chance that we would go backward on many issues.

Bernice Morris: It's no for me, and it's mostly because of a lot of the things that Melissa just said and the communities that would be mostly negatively impacted by those decisions. So it's a definite no for me.

Lammis Vargas: I don't support it. I think that once we open it, there's no limit on what we can address in terms of immigration LGBTQ rights, reproductive freedoms, guns, and the working class as well. I do not support the convention at all.

Ed Fitzpatrick: Earlier this year, the Senate passed a bill introduced by Senator Dawn Euer that would ensure contraception remains covered in Rhode Island even if coverage requirements in the Affordable Care Act are overturned. It didn't pass the House, but would you have voted for it?

Lammis Vargas: If it comes back up. If it doesn't come back, we're going to make sure that it comes back up again. Reproductive health is extremely important and making sure that our state employees have that coverage as well. I want to make sure that reproductive health is covered by everyone. That includes reproductive health for the transgender community as well.

The LGBTQ community is extremely important and dear to my heart, and I want to make sure that I continue to advocate for them at the local level as well. That's part of conversations I've also had with folks as I'm knocking on doors. My daughter's a member of that community, and the issue is extremely vital, important, critical, and dear and dear to my heart. Six years ago I started the Pride Flag raising in Cranston. So yes, I would be supporting that Bill

Bernice Morris: Yes, yes, yes, yes. Reproductive rights for everyone regardless of their gender or gender identity.

Melissa Carden: Yes. Contraception and abortion is healthcare. I would do everything I can to protect and expand access to abortion, including contraception and birth control.

Darrèll Brown: I agree. There's nothing more for me to say. I believe in the woman's right to choose and would oppose anything that would go against a woman's right to choose.

Ed Fitzpatrick: Earlier this year, Senator Louis DiPalma (Democrat, District 12, Little Compton, Middletown, Newport, Tiverton) championed a bill that would make significant updates to the Access to Public Records Act for the first time in more than a decade. It would, for example, allow for greater access to crash data maintained by the DOT. It would require public access to police body camera footage within 30 days of an incident involving force. If you're in the Senate, you'll probably end up voting on that bill in the coming session. How would you vote and why?

Darrèll Brown: The Access to Public Records Act is an important tool not only for all of us, but for the press, and when we are denied access to public records that suppresses the debate and suppresses information. I've been working with an organizer on the transportation side. He's been trying to get access to certain transportation records related to RIPTA and RIPTA has been fighting tooth and nail - not wanting to give up this information.

Going back to RIPTA, we fought hard and I lobbied on the Senate and House side and I went to the governor's office and lobbied because in the budget they were taking dollars out of RIPTA. There was a hole there of about $8 million. We fought hard to fill that hole. Why is that so important? Because Black, brown, and minority people are the primary users of RIPTA, and they were cutting the bus routes and not paying the bus drivers. On top of that, they were saying that it's going to be a slow transition in terms of electrifying our buses, which once again reduces greenhouse gas emissions. The people who are most impacted by that are minority people.

Melissa Carden: I support Senator DIPalma's Access to Public Records Act. It's especially important with the Washington Bridge [issue] because there are many documents we're not seeing. It highlights the importance of transparency. Senator DiPalma is also the sponsor of the assault weapons ban, which is one of my priorities for the next session.

Bernice Morris: Full transparency is the goal so changes to the Access to Public Records Act are critical. We saw the article about the crime data in Providence. People tell us what they want to tell us because they're trying to spin a certain story or they want us to believe a certain thing, but when it comes to critical things like community safety, we should have access. We should know that the crime data being reported by the Providence Police Department is telling the actual story and not some other story that the municipality is trying to tell us. As much as we know about what's happening, we can be more engaged. It helps to galvanize the community and people organizing to make sure that we're making good decisions for all residents in the city. All residents in the district should have the same access to that information and not just what we're being told.

Lammis Vargas: I would support that. It opens up accountability and transparency for every one of us. I would go ahead and vote in favor of it.

Ed Fitzpatrick: I think the Washington Bridge made public records law sexy again.

If you're elected, will you work with local schools and communities to do more zero-waste events? If so, how?

Lammis Vargas: I touched upon a little bit earlier on, but I will continue to work with the schools as a city council person. I have, along with the city council, continued to advocate for equitable funding for a lot of the projects throughout the City of Cranston. I will continue to advocate, on the Senate side, for example, on the Senate environmental committee. That would be a great way to engage with our school department and the Rhode Island Department of Education, with the resource recovery as well that we have, making sure that we are transparent in terms of what is it that we're actually doing right now and what are we not doing, maybe creating a task force on that.

It's extremely important, as I mentioned earlier, to start teaching the younger generation how to recycle. I said earlier that we are not doing our due diligence in recycling and we need to make sure that we keep ourselves and the schools accountable. It's working with our teachers and working with other organizations to bring the education component of what's happening at the State House to the schools and the students and create a program that will be able to benefit each one of our students.

Bernice Morris: I would do more zero-waste events. The schools should be doing it. The fact that they're not is a problem. I worked for many years at the Providence Housing Authority. That's another place where recycling is not happening. I have been at Crossroads for 10 years where you would see hundreds of people living in very tight spaces and not recycling. There have to be more events in schools, public housing, and the places where we all live. Part of that is education and understanding the whole recycling thing. The other side is we have to recycle more in Rhode Island. We have to have more capability to recycle things in Rhode Island besides the things that we can recycle now. If we are being intentional about zero waste, then that's what we have to do.

Melissa Carden: I'm going to bring it back to the bottle bill because that's important. It's going to reduce litter and encourage recycling. It's going to hold the big liquor and soda companies who create the plastic accountable. Banning single-use plastic containers is another idea. Also, encouraging composting. A third of what's at the landfill is food so it's another idea and I know a lot of people in the community do it.

Ed Fitzpatrick: Legislative leadership in recent years has been very skeptical of the bottle bill. What would you say to them?

Melissa Carden: I'd say it is beyond time to do it. Massachusetts is doing it. Connecticut's doing it. It's the right thing to do. It's got a lot of support. But like other issues, it's the big money interests. Same thing with gun safety. It was always the gun manufacturers that stood in the way. In this instance, it's the big liquor and soda companies that are standing in the way. It's time to stand up to them. This is what the majority of people want and it's best for the environment and the community. So it's beyond time.

Darrèll Brown: Again, this is what I do for a living. It's not just about the bottle bill, but it's extended producer responsibility. Some of what was said here needs to happen. Both of those bills need to pass. And I would support both of those bills because I'm already up there lobbying for those bills.

I hate to burst everybody's bubble here about recycling but when we talk about educating the public about recycling, we need to tell the truth about this. We all put our recycling outside and our blue barrels. That's one aspect of recycling and quite frankly, that is the dirtiest and most contaminated aspect of recycling. Most of that stuff [we recycle] ends up back in the landfill. We think we're doing a good job, but in fact, that's what happens. That's called downcycling. Then there is the other recycling, which is what we're talking about, where you collect the bottles, whether they're nips or glass or cans, and we send them to a recycling center. That recycling activity is less contaminated so it has more of an opportunity to be reused.

Two different things are going on and that's not explained to the public because most folks out there in the public didn't realize that when we're putting our garbage and our recycling outside, 90% of it is going to the landfill. That's why we need a bottle bill and we also need the extended producer responsibility bill so that we can get off plastic. That is what zero waste is really about - getting off plastics. Until we get off plastics, we're going to continue in this spiral. I don't mean to be the boogeyman here, but that's just the truth of the matter.

Ed Fitzpatrick: There's a controversial proposal from Cranston Mayor Kenneth Hopkins that would ban homeless encampments on public property. Violators would be subject to a $50 fine and have 24 hours to remove their tents or shelters before they'd be seized and discarded by city employees. Do you support or oppose that ordinance?

Darrèll Brown: I have not read the ordinance. I need to take a look at the ordinance.

Ed Fitzpatrick: It's banning Homeless encampments on public property. Violators would be subject to $50 fines.

Darrèll Brown: We are measured by how we treat the least of us. I'm from Washington DC originally, and I have seen a lot of homeless people on the street, and I know the safety issues around that. There are safety issues, but we need to be more compassionate about this and how we address this issue. We cannot have homeless people in our public spaces. That's not the answer. But it's all about how we do this. We need more housing and alternative housing for folks who are less fortunate than us. We need to do a better job there.

Until I read the ordinance and get into the details, I will reserve [judgment] on that. But I will say that we have to do a better job in terms of how we treat our homeless people. By the grace of God go I. Any one of us in this room can end up homeless. And if you think that that can't happen, you're fooling yourself. As a person who has seen homelessness and had homeless friends, I want to be compassionate about this. There are ways to go about doing this and I would want to talk to the experts in the field before I come to any particular judgment.

Melissa Carden: I'm against banning encampments. We know that poverty and the lack of affordable housing are what drive people to become unhoused. What works is affordable housing. I'm not a housing expert. That's more Bernice. My understanding is that the City of Cranston hasn't invested in affordable housing in the past decade. Providence just announced a dozen projects yesterday, which I thought was great. They were all affordable housing projects, so we know it can be done.

My understanding is that in cities where they've been successful in addressing the unhoused population, it's not only affordable housing but the wraparound services that are needed, like healthcare and job training. A third of unhoused people, or approximately a third, suffer from substance use disorder. That's why I say healthcare because some have very difficult to treat psychiatric and mental health issues. We know what the answers are. We have to invest in affordable housing and we have to invest in wraparound services for these folks.

Bernice Morris: Criminalizing homelessness is a terrible idea. It's awful. You should not be criminalizing people because they are unhoused. It is a complicated issue. Yes, there's not enough affordable housing. We hear about that all the time. We know that the system right now is not equipped. There are behavioral and physical health needs and folks coming back to our community from incarceration. There are many challenges for this population. It's a population I've worked with every day for the last almost 11 years. It's complicated, but it is never a good situation when you are fining or criminalizing people for being unhoused. So strongly oppose.

Lammis Vargas: This ordinance was heard on Thursday at the ordinance committee meeting, which I chair on the Cranston City Council. It was a long night. Many of you I see this afternoon were there that evening. We're dealing, nationwide, with a huge housing problem and its ripple effect into the unhoused community. To impose a fine on someone is criminalizing, particularly the marginalized communities and the Black and brown communities. [When you] put a fine on someone that person [will have] difficulty from there. Trying to get housing is going to be impossible. Trying to get a job will be impossible. A $50 fine could continue to add up if there's also a no-show [in court] or anything else. [It's not] going to help the problem.

That ordinance was not going to help the problem. That ordinance was going to create another problem for individuals. While it was passed by the United States Supreme Court, the ordinance introduced by the mayor was not going to be of any help. It was not going to fix a problem. We need to continue to fund mental healthcare, not just at our schools, but for adults. We need to make sure that everybody has access to healthcare. Healthcare is so expensive and prescriptions are going up. We need to make sure that we continue to make health insurance companies accountable for that. Because that is a ripple effect into the housing, into food, no one should be debating whether to pay for a prescription or a $50 fine that they just got because an ordinance passed, or if they're going to be paying for health insurance or any other items that they need.

Housing is a fundamental right. We all get to go home tonight. Winter is coming. We may all have heat in our homes. The unhoused community will not. When there was a Pallet Shelter conversation in Cranston, there was a lot of NIMBYs. There were a lot of people who said, that is not happening in my backyard. Well, we need to get over that. It is inhumane to see people sleeping in tents and to see human feces around our city. We need to make sure that we address that with local and statewide organizations and at the state level, to make sure that we make ourselves accountable and that we work to make sure that we are investing in affordable housing.

But we should be working with smart developers. When developers come before the city council, my question has been, how much of that development is going to be affordable housing? They say, “Well, it's only going to be 15-20%.” Well no, I want more. Because if you're coming here asking us for a rezone and you're telling us are you are going to develop housing, then you better come here and say that you're going to give more than what you're already saying. It's keeping developers accountable, but it's also working with them that is important. And I am glad that our Vice President, our presidential nominee, has brought that forward and has [declared] the importance of housing when she gets elected.

Ed Fitzpatrick: Years ago, lawmakers cut taxes on the wealthiest Rhode Islanders cumulatively costing the state hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue over the years. One recent poll showed more than 70% of voters support raising the tax rate on the highest income earners making more than a million a year. Do you support this? And if so, what would you do to pass this bill that's been held for further study for many years?

Lammis Vargas: I believe that's the one they call the Taylor Swift Tax. As much as I like Taylor Swift, if you are making all that money, why not pay your fair share of taxes? So I would be supportive of making sure that passes in terms of making sure that anyone in that income bracket gives their due diligence and pays their fair share of taxes.

Ed Fitzpatrick: Why has legislative leadership not embraced that in recent years? The argument you've heard from Senate leaders is that it would drive people out of state.

Lammis Vargas: That's an interesting point. I have not had a conversation with Senate leadership about any of this, but I can say I've followed what's been noted in the news. I would say that there are people still coming into the state as I'm door-knocking. We have folks coming in from out of state, so I don't think there's a reason why we're going to drive people out of state. There's a lot of people from Boston moving into Rhode Island. There's no reason to say that they're leaving or going out of state. Maybe we need to look at all the other opportunities that we as a state can provide and give to the folks that are living here, but if someone is in an income bracket of over a million dollars or more, they can pay their fair share. I don't see the reason why they can't.

Bernice Morris: I agree. If you're making a million dollars, you should be paying more taxes. And we've heard this argument many times. It's going to drive out business, it's going to make people leave. It's messaging. Let's focus on all the benefits that tax increase [can have] on households in Rhode Island. Let's focus on that and talk about that. When people say, “People, businesses, or the rich people are going to leave Rhode Island” - No they're not because everything else is going to get better in Rhode Island when we have more revenue to support the things that make sense for all Rhode Islanders.

This is about equity for me. So if you want to talk about a more progressive tax, the highest income earners pay more taxes. I'm in favor of that. To move that along in the General Assembly and the Senate is to be talking about those things. Let's talk about all the benefits. Let's talk about the issues around housing, behavioral health safe communities, and so many other things. All this extra revenue is going to help us do this work. Let's talk about those things when they are in opposition. That's what I would do.

Melissa Carden: This is something I've done a little research on. Massachusetts passed a similar law last year, and now the CPA's Association of Massachusetts has come out and said that I believe it was, they said a third of their clients did leave the State of Massachusetts.

[Note: This is not what the CPA “report” claimed. Instead, the report said that a third of Mass CPAs reported that at least one client left the state in response to the tax. The CPAs produced no data confirming this. Read the report here, but with more than a grain of salt. The job of a CPA is to protect the assets of their rich clients.]

Melissa Carden: I want to do more research on it because the last thing I would want is for people to leave. Now that I'm seeing that there could be some data, it looks like there's data to support that. [There is not, at least not yet.] I want to put more thought into it. And I think with any funding you have to look at what the possible revenue streams are and which are the right ones. It's a bit complicated and I would like to do more research on it.

Darrèll Brown: Yes, the wealthy need to pay their fair share. As far as them leaving, while it pains me, I do agree with you that folks may be leaving Massachusetts, but guess what? They're probably coming to Rhode Island because it's cheaper. It's less expensive. I will call their bluff and say, “Leave,” because there will be more wealthy people who will come in and take their place who can afford the tax. I'm not that concerned about it. That's a red herring, an argument that they make so that we don't pass the tax. They don't want to pay it, but they should pay. So they're going to argue against it. I say, let's do it. Let's increase the tax. And I've done a lot of economic development in my 30-year career and sometimes you've got to play hardball. We need that extra money to take care of a lot of things in Rhode Island, including fixing the bridge. So let's do it. I'm all for it. I'm not concerned about them leaving. Other people will come in and it'll be fine.

Ed Fitzpatrick: That's all we have time for. Let's give the candidates a hand.