Rep Magaziner holds labor roundtable with striking RI members of SAG-AFTRA
"What people at home need to understand is that these thousand-plus Rhode Islanders, who are on strike right now, are not just faces and voices on a screen. These are our neighbors."
On Thursday morning United States Representative Seth Magaziner (RI-02) held a labor roundtable discussion with Rhode Island members of SAG-AFTRA who have been on strike while seeking better pay, benefits, and working conditions.
“Every worker deserves to be fairly compensated for their work,” said Representative Magaziner. “Fair pay and benefits mean that SAG-AFTRA members can afford health care, groceries, and housing. I encourage all parties to come to the table in good faith and negotiate an equitable contract for all.”
“Our demand for fair compensation isn't just about the numbers – it's about the recognition of our talent, our dedication, and our value,” said Andrea Lyman, SAG-AFTRA New England Local President. “SAG-AFTRA will not give up until we receive our fair share of residuals, a reasonable increase in rates to keep up with inflation, and real, true, protections for our voices and images from Artificial Intelligence [AI]. We will continue to fight for a fair and equitable and respectful contract and we will win.”
What follows is a transcript of the roundtable discussion, edited for clarity:
Seth Magaziner: As Rhode Island's Representative in the Second Congressional District, my priority is always fighting for working people in our state and beyond, and that includes workers across all industries. I called this group together to draw attention to the fact that there are a thousand Rhode Islanders who are currently on strike as SAG-AFTRA members and that they deserve, just like all workers deserve, fair compensation, workplace protections, safety on the job, and a voice at the table.
This has been a very difficult time in the entertainment industry for workers. I also want to recognize the Writers Guild of America, which has been on strike for even longer. They are not here today because they are at the table and we wish them well there.
We want to send the message to Rhode Islanders that this is not just something that's happening in California, New York, or other places around the country. We have an entertainment industry here in Rhode Island that employs a lot of people and is the source of a lot of people's livelihoods. I wanted to make sure that I heard from people in the industry who are living this struggle and who are impacted so that when we return to Washington next week, I can take your stories and perspectives back with me and make sure that we're doing everything we can in Congress to advocate for workers in the entertainment industry.
There are about a thousand SAG-AFTRA members in Rhode Island. The impact of the film and television industry in Rhode Island is significant. We know some of the high-profile examples. Most people are familiar with the HBO show The Gilded Age, which has been filming in Rhode Island and employs an average of 4,000 people full-time annually every season. That's incredible. NOS4A2 has employed over a thousand people per year. The list goes on and on.
A myth we wanted to dispel is that while every SAG-AFTRA member is a star, not everyone makes movie star compensation. Only about 10% of SAG-AFTRA members earn more than the $26,000 a year threshold to receive health insurance, meaning that 90% earn less than $25,000 a year at the same time that the CEOs of the studios, on average, earn salaries of more than $30 million per year in addition to other perks.
This is a strike that is impacting lots of Rhode Islanders. We are very proud of our film and television industry in Rhode Island, but we need to make sure that people who are working in the industry are compensated fairly. With that, I want to thank all of the SAG-AFTRA members who are here.
Particularly, I want to thank Jessica Maher, the executive director of New England SAG-AFTRA, and Andrea Lyman, who is the president of the New England local. I want to recognize and thank Pat Crowley and Autumn Guillott from the AFL-CIO of Rhode Island, who are here.
Andrea Lyman: Generally, this would be my busiest time of the year. I try not to make any travel plans or plans to have people visit me because I'm working so much during the warmer months. I work in Rhode Island, Massachusetts, and throughout New England on different films and television series. Last summer, I was working a ton, so it was a shock to shut down and not be working at all. That being said, even though I'm working a lot, and a lot of people would say, "Andrea's always working," I'm one of those people that most of the time does not meet the threshold for health insurance, and of course, I'm not going to make it now, we haven't been working. So that is a struggle.
The other part of that is the streamers. I've done some principal roles that have gone to streaming networks and I've gotten residual checks. I got one recently for $22. That's not going to pay very many bills for me, and that is the story for a lot of people. You see these big shows that everyone is watching, and yet the streamers say, "We don't know how many people are watching. We can't figure out how much we would pay for this. We don't have the numbers." [But] they do. My theory is that when it was broadcast television, because of the commercials, advertisers had to pay a certain amount of money. I think that's why we knew how the shows were doing because they would say, "Hey, this show is doing well, so we're going to charge you more for advertising." And everybody found out about it, including us. And we said, "You need to pay us." But when they don't have advertising, there's no way to find out the money. They say, "We're so poor!" And that's not true. We see these CEOs walking away with a ton of money. We just want a fair share. We want to be able to earn a living.
We also don't want them to copy our likeness for half a day's pay and use it throughout the film and then in perpetuity, which is something that they want to do. We don't want to do that, and we certainly don't want to do it without our consent. That's happened to me. I didn't realize they could use it in perpetuity. I thought it was just for this one film.
Susan Bergeron: I live right here in Warwick, and I've been in film and TV, as a professional background artist mostly, for 28 years now as a member of the Screen Actors Guild. The most I ever made was like $11,000 one year. Then it dropped way down. I average maybe $4,000 or $5,000 a year. I'm retired now so it supplements my fixed income. If it weren't for that, I'd starve, but I love it.
What I wanted to focus on was how, since we're on strike, we're not the only ones impacted. The local businesses surrounding us are impacted too. For example, last year, in the summer, I worked a lot and I worked on the TV series Julia that was filming in Boston, not too far from here. I worked on a lot of episodes and I sew, so I made a lot of my costumes because it was vintage - it took place in 1963. I would go to local places like Joann Fabric and I would buy notions and vintage patterns. I would have to go to Viselli Salon for hairpieces. My car is often used in film, so I have to keep my car up. I have to have detailing done once in a while, and I have it washed and waxed. I have to keep the oil changed and things like that because there's a lot of travel involved.
All these things go away when you're not working. All those businesses are impacted. I'm not doing anything. I haven't worked. I probably had one day's work in a year, so I'm not sewing, I'm not making costumes, I'm not doing anything with my car. It sits in the driveway. So all of these businesses are impacted as well as the actors who aren't working.
Seth Magaziner: That's a good point. In addition to the thousands of people in Rhode Island who earn a living from appearing in film and television, thousands of local businesses and vendors also benefit from this industry.
Susan Bergeron: And the people behind the scenes too. I was working on a show called The Unholy. It was a horror movie. When the pandemic came that movie got shut down and I was put in this big machine, it scanned me. Some of you may have experienced that. And I remember asking them, "What are you doing? What is this?" And they wouldn't tell us. They made a joke. They said, "That's in case they want to make flames shooting out of your behind or something like that." And I'm like, "Oh, very funny."
They never did tell us what they were doing. All these lights went around me. I think that was an attempt, early on, at this cloning thing where they take a picture, clone you, and be able to use your picture over and over again. They just pay you once, one and done, and then use you over and over in perpetuity for other pictures. It reminded me of Marlon Brando 20 years ago. He said to Frank Oz, "I bet you wish I was a puppet so you could just stick your hand in me and make me do anything you wanted." I thought that was such a strange comment, "Why did he say that?" But now I understand what he was getting at.
Seth Magaziner: I think that's an important point. As I understand it, that's one of the most important issues. The technology, artificial intelligence, has evolved to the point where they could be using your image and likeness in ways that you never fully consented to and not compensating you for it. Is that right?
Richard O'Rourke: For years, they've used images to populate sports stadiums and things like that. They'll take our picture and in a still frame I'll look and there'll be 14 of me. But what I'm concerned about is when you start cloning and get these huge digital libraries going, you won't need to use background actors. What's the use for us anymore? That's what I'm worried about.
I am old enough that I came into the union when VHS existed and when DVDs came out, they would say, "It's very difficult. How could we ever assess how many people bought DVDs?" Well, you could count them up. When you see a movie and you sit through the credits, there are generally more accountants working on the movie than there are actors, so I think they're pretty sure of where their dollars go. But for some reason, every time technology shows up, they use the same argument. With AI, they have suggested that they pay us for one day and they have it forever. I have an alternative suggestion. How about they pay us for one day and then they pay us every Tuesday forever? That's the other end of the spectrum.
Seth Magaziner: I think you've raised another issue. We've talked about the use of image and likeness and artificial intelligence, and you've also raised the issue of the streaming services and how we know they're making a lot of money, but they're very opaque. Some transparency might help develop fair compensation and recognize the work that you and your other members contribute.
Steven Corley: I live in Smithfield. Being a principal actor is where the money's at. I'm more concerned with the background actors getting a fair wage. I know the economy's going well, and I know there are a lot of jobs out there, and there's a shortage, especially in the retail industry. I see a lot of McDonald's are offering $19 an hour, and we are making minimum wage. I feel that we are important and have so much that we offer. A day's pay doesn't go far and inflation is still pretty bad. Background actors shouldn't be on par with principal actors, but they should make a little bit more than they're making right now. That's my main concern.
Angela Riding: I've been in SAG-AFTRA since 2007. I began working on Brotherhood in 2004 with many of you. I'd like to make two points. First, I too was in that cage [being scanned] and we were completely ignorant. We never even heard the term AI, but you do what you're told. We were photographed, and it happened to me one more time on a more recent show, although I was more aware of what it was. That image is somewhere and who knows how it will be used?
Seth Magaziner: And you never get notified when it is used or anything like that?
Angela Riding: No. The other point is that you mentioned a thousand people working on NOS4A2 and 4,000 on The Gilded Age. We're not the only ones suffering. The other unions are hurting too. People are not working. Everybody's a gig worker and they're all looking for other jobs and ways to make a living. The ramifications are huge.
Seth Magaziner: That's why I think we want to make sure that we're elevating this and calling attention to it as much as we can because the studios need to come to the table. There needs to be a real attempt at a fair negotiation. There are lots of things on the news every night, and people lose focus, but we need to make sure that the public stays focused on what's happening here.
Angela Riding: You mentioned regulating the streamers. Would that be something that you would champion a bill for?
Seth Magaziner: We can certainly look at that. I know that in the past Congress has gotten very involved in things like music royalties. That's written into law and it's very standardized. That's an interesting piece of feedback. We could look at doing that in collaboration with our labor partners. It's interesting.
Bill Riding: I'm one of those old guys who's on the way out, but I'm here to support everyone in the industry. As my wife said, we started in 2004. Making money was a nice thing. We were both retired and it was a good thing. There's only one time we made any money, and that wasn't in a movie picture, that was in a commercial. We happened to make enough money in three days to go for three weeks to the Virgin Islands. That was a good one. That was the only one we ever had. So we don't seem to get that too often. They don't want SAG-AFTRA people doing commercials. That's expensive. We ought to look into that. We've got to look into a lot of things. It's going to blow up and I hope it's on our side.
Seth Magaziner: Do you all get the sense that the studios are just betting that the public won't notice, or their viewing habits won't take a hit, and that they can just delay, delay, delay, and press you guys that way?
Andrea Lyman: If they think we're going to collapse, well, they picked the wrong group. Writers and actors are used to fighting for what we want. We're used to finding other ways. We are creatives, so we're going to find creative ways to make money. So no, they're not going to freeze us out. They can't wait us out or anything like that. We're here.
Vic Ramos: I'm the SAG-AFTRA broadcast vice president. They've been saying that we're easy to work with, but very hard to fight. And they're finding that out right now.
Debbie Rich: I also do political work. If my boss was not in office, I was working in movies and television and earned my way into SAG-AFTRA in 2007. During that time, I had to earn my healthcare through the union. I would work in up to five states to do that because there was a certain minimum to qualify. I did it four years in a row, which meant I worked in Philadelphia, New York, Connecticut, Massachusetts, and Rhode Island. Summer scenes in winter, blizzards, snow, everything that I could do to qualify for healthcare, which is ridiculous in an industry where we need to be healthy. To put our healthcare about our earnings is crazy.
Seth Magaziner: As I understand it, healthcare is another thing that's at issue in the strike, right? Making sure that studios are contributing a fair amount?
Debbie Rich: That would be great. I was lucky enough to have a place to go or to drive four hours to use my car on the street in New York and then drive back and all of that. The other thing that you brought up was related industries. My family and I were lucky enough to have our vacant restaurant used as the set for Good Burger 2. I've been in the business a long time, but I got to see how locations worked and how the wonderful crew members created magic out of a very old and dilapidated building to make it this beautiful movie set and then take it all down. It was gone like it never happened. The movie magic was wonderful to see. Local construction workers are also missing out because we're not working.
Robert Marcello: We’re now making 5% less than in previous years. Where does that make sense with the rising cost of living? And somebody like Netflix, they were saying they're making less, but that's because of their core business model. What they'll be doing is charging more. They will find another way to make more money. You mentioned transparency. We don’t know how much money that is. I'm fortunate enough to have been on several projects where I residual as a principal, which has gotten smaller and smaller. I also do a good amount of background work as that is the backbone of the industry, and that's who is getting hurt. There's the old joke. "Oh, you're an actor. What Starbucks do you work at?" We have to work two or three other jobs to try to make it. There's something wrong there.
The companies are out of touch. I can make almost as much cleaning bathrooms and if I have to do that, I'll do that, but I'd rather work in my industry for fair compensation. We're working longer hours for less money. And beyond that, what about car costs? I'm paying taxes, insurance, all of that. Can I go out to dinner or do things like that? No, I have to make a decision.
Rose: I've been a member of SAG-AFTRA since 2021. I've been fortunate lately to work a lot last year and the year before. I wanted to point something out about AI, the technology itself. AI is theft. If I punch into my ChatGPT and say, "I would like to write a script that talks about a single mom who has a baby and runs up against hardship," AI is going to glean what's out there already. It's going to pull from what's on the internet already.
It's essentially theft. It's not creative. It's theft, flat-out theft. It is gleaning from what it sees. And as it does this, it learns better every time. Is it helpful for scientists, researchers, and doctors? Absolutely. It's fabulous for them. It's awful for a creative. It's going to take the soul and the heart right out of this business. I see shirts here that support the Writer's Guild of America. I'm very much in support of WGA. You have people writing hit shows like The Bear. Every actor on the planet, celebrities, I don't care who they are, they want to be on The Bear. Yet this person who writes The Bear, one of the writers was on TV the other day saying, "I can't pay my internet in New York City. So what do I do? I go to the JFK Library and I work on it there."
I'm like, this guy's writing a hit show that everyone wants to be on. And you're talking people around it like Jamie Lee Curtis and huge stars on there as cameos because they want to be a part of this fabulous writing. There's something wrong there.
AI is theft. It's taking what it sees and putting little parts together. What they want to do is create stories from that and also recreate, because you've been scanned, your likeness. But here's the other thing: consent. They could take anybody's image and put them in a scene that they don't agree with. They could be in some horrible political thing that they disagree with in a way they would never portray themselves. It's a crazy thing.
Seth Magaziner: That's a really good point.
Rose: They want us to just sit there and say, "Okay, this is all fun," but it's just bad. Art, to me, is a reflection of a person's soul. It's a reflection of who you are, your experience, and where you've lived. That's what we put into our stories. If we can't do that, if we have a machine do it, a data mining machine, the soul is gone.
Vic Ramos: I'm the SAG-AFTRA Broadcast Vice President and my background is in broadcasting. I have done background work in Rhode Island and Massachusetts. I too, have been fully scanned by programs that I worked on, At first, I did not know what it was all about. I'm also here to talk about AI, but from a slightly different perspective, in terms of broadcasting, because we, as broadcasters, also have a vested interest in how these negotiations are going.
As this contract goes, that's going to lay the groundwork for broadcasters too, particularly since some of the studios are representing our employers too. Disney is ABC. Paramount is CBS. Universal is NBC, and on it goes. And AI has already made its way into that. You may have heard of a program called AI Ashley, where they have this DJ who went into a radio booth, recorded a few phrases, and now is on the air in Portland, Oregon. It’s totally AI, and not just AI, it's interactive with listeners. It's really scary.
That's what broadcasters are facing right now. We are supporting you guys as far as contracts because the issue affects us too. And not just union people, this is going to affect the entire industry and beyond.
Jessica Maher: I want to just make two quick points. SAG-AFTRA and WGA are addressing and dealing with AI before any other industries, but every other industry is watching to see what happens. We must get real protections for our members in this contract. The other point I wanted to make was that this is not just about Hollywood. We are the people that this is affecting. Hollywood actors have agents and managers to get their salaries negotiated higher. We are fighting for the minimums that affect the people in this room and the people in Rhode Island.
Doreen Collins: I've been a member since 1978. My father was a union leader, CWA, AFL-CIO. I know we're only as strong as our members and we have to fight for each other. I've not been scanned. But as far as the AI, it doesn't do humor yet. I'm a comedian. That's how I scrape by. But AI is learning and it's learning pretty fast.
They can't break us. They won't break us. And as someone who watches an average of 180 hours a week of TV, they're making money.
Tony Toma: My point is more about the discouragement. I came into the union 10 years ago, so I'm relatively new, and I came in with a lot of good feelings. It's something that I enjoyed doing on the side. I can only imagine that those who are observing this strike will maybe never want to participate as a background actor. You're possibly losing people who you would've never lost. My other concern, for me, is, where do I find other avenues to do side jobs? We just came out of Covid. We still have people who aren't getting enough work, trying to catch up on the credit card debt that they put themselves into for two years.
Seth Magaziner: I want to thank you all. Not just for coming in and sharing your stories and educating me, which is very helpful, but for having the courage to take this very difficult step, not just for yourselves and your own families, but for everyone else in the industry who deserves fairness, and also in other industries as well.
As was said earlier, you're the first workers to grapple with this AI trend in a labor negotiation setting, but many others could be impacted and will be impacted in the future. Your actions and courage are raising the bar for working people across the country and in a range of different industries. I want to thank you for that because I know it's hard. I know what you've gone through over the last couple of months has been tough and can be discouraging. You're doing this for yourselves and your families, but also for something much bigger. And I thank you for that.
I think it is very important that people at home know there are a thousand Rhode Islanders who are SAG-AFTRA members and many more who are employed in the television and film industry. They deserve fair compensation, protection from AI, and control over their image and likeness. What people at home need to understand is that these thousand-plus Rhode Islanders, who are on strike right now, are not just faces and voices on a screen. These are our neighbors. These are people who have car payments, who have health insurance to pay for, who have kids to put through school, and who deserve our support and encouragement. I have taken your feedback and I'll bring it back to Washington with me to see if there's anything we can do to help there.
On June 5, 2023, SAG-AFTRA voted in favor of a strike authorization by 98%. Among SAG-AFTRA’s requests are increased minimum pay rates, increased streaming residuals (neither of which has kept up with inflation), safeguards from AI, and improved working conditions. Additionally, royalty payments – which are dependent on the number of a show’s reruns – have plummeted due to streaming. Many actors rely on these residuals to supplement their income until their next role.
The SAG-AFTRA labor strike comes at a time when CEOs of the major media conglomerates earned an average of $32.6 million in salary, stocks, and other perks last year. Over 1,000 Rhode Island members of SAG-AFTRA have been impacted by the strike
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Great report. Thanks