Providence Mayor Smiley takes questions on unhoused encampment evictions

"There will be individuals, it's usually single-digits, who will find a better solution," said the Mayor about those being evicted. "Many will not."

Reporters got Providence Mayor Brett Smiley to speak on the upcoming unhoused tent encampment evictions the city has planned for this weekend at an unrelated event Wednesday morning. [See: Providence Mayor Brett Smiley is evicting up to 85 people experiencing homelessness from three encampments]

Steve Klamkin WPRO: There’s going to be a rally today, later today. Some people are being rousted from tent encampments. Tell me about your thoughts on that.

Mayor Brett Smiley: We have, throughout the summer and really over the last year, had regular communication with, and a process that we have followed concerning encampments in the city. We work closely with providers to go through a process whereby we offer assistance, and then, if it's public property, ourselves or if it's private property, upon the request of private property owners, [issue a] notice to vacate and then vacate encampments in the city. They remain an unsafe place for people to live, and sadly have seen some difficult situations, both from a public health and physical safety perspective. We continue to use and stick with that process, and expect that it will be employed in the next couple of days as well.

Steve Klamkin WPRO: I guess some people have been given a notice, something like 72 hours from today?

Mayor Brett Smiley: That's right.

Steve Klamkin WPRO: So that's appropriate?

Mayor Brett Smiley: It's the best process we have. We know that it's a difficult situation and nobody wants to either have our residents living in encampments or have to evict them from encampments, but the reality is that they are unsafe for the people who live there and they're not appropriate places for people to live. We will be following through with those eviction notices on these two specific encampments and continue to employ this policy throughout the city as other encampments arise.

Steve Ahlquist: Where is the more appropriate place for them to go? Because we know we're lacking at least 700 shelters for people, and these people have no shelters to go to, so where will they be going?

Mayor Brett Smiley: So it's a struggle and it's a case-by-case basis, which is why we work with providers to try to find the best option. And we know in some cases that there are no good options...

Steve Ahlquist: ... so they'll be going to other encampments.

Mayor Brett Smiley: It's not clear to us where they go...

Steve Ahlquist: Many of them will be going to other encampments. That's true. Right?

Mayor Brett Smiley: Well, like I said, many of the people living in these encampments don't tell us where they'll be relocating to if there's no additional...

Steve Ahlquist: Have you asked [them] yourself?

Mayor Brett Smiley: I've not.

Steve Ahlquist: So you don't know what they're planning.

Mayor Brett Smiley: I don't know. I just said I don't know where they're planning on going, and I don't believe any city official does.

Steve Ahlquist: Have you thought about providing services for people in encampments? Because right now they don't have any services, and you talked about the health hazards, but if they had adequate sanitation, maybe they wouldn't be so unhealthy.

Mayor Brett Smiley: It is not my policy, and I don't believe it is an acceptable solution, to allow for permanent or semi-permanent encampments in the city of Providence.

Steve Ahlquist: So the solution is to chase them around all over the city?

Mayor Brett Smiley: The solution is to continue to dramatically expand housing options, both emergency shelter options, and long-term, affordable housing, all of which we are doing.

Steve Ahlquist: The state is cutting [shelter beds]. 700 beds are closing.

Mayor Brett Smiley: That's a question for the state. The City of Providence continues to spend more and more money on emergency shelters. We've spent more money on emergency shelters in my administration than the city has ever spent before. We continue to increase funding for those options. We also increased the building and development of affordable housing and transitional housing options.

Steve Ahlquist: But is it enough if 50 to 85 people are going to be evicted this weekend?

Mayor Brett Smiley: We don't have nearly enough housing in the City of Providence at every price point. We've been quite clear about that.

Steve Ahlquist: Right. So the solution is, right now, to chase them around.

Mayor Brett Smiley: The solution right now is to have a fair and predictable process that's uniformly applied throughout the city.

Steve Ahlquist: Is it applied to me as well? It's only applied to homeless people. It's not a fair, predictable process.

Mayor Brett Smiley: I'm talking about a housing policy concerning encampments. That's the policy I'm referring to. It is the same process we've used throughout the last year and a half where we use social service providers under contract with the city, with our funds, to offer assistance. And then when the time comes, if the encampment needs to be cleared, we give adequate notice and then in a humane way, clear the encampment. That's the same process, that'll be followed in this case.

“We acknowledge it is tragic that there are some folks for whom there is not a solution today,” said Mayor Brett Smiley.

After the Mayor’s unrelated press conference, other reporters took a shot.

Channel 12 Reporter: We have a protest expected to happen later [today] involving the homeless encampments and the vacate notices. Any comment about that?

Mayor Brett Smiley: We have a policy that we continue to deploy and have [deployed] as long as I've been in office, whereby we send social service agencies by, we try to offer assistance that is both available or is appropriate on a case-by-case basis on the individuals. And then we give adequate notice to vacate and then we vacate. The encampments in the City of Providence are not safe and they're not suitable for folks, so we intend to go through with the vacate notice for the two encampments in question today. But it remains part of a regular process that we have deployed over the last year and a half.

Channel 12 Reporter: And where are those two encampments?

Mayor Brett Smiley: One is on the highway embankment at Branch Avenue and 95, and the other one is on Houghton Street. Both, I think, are a good example of why we have such serious concerns about these encampments. One is along an interstate highway. In addition to it being unsafe because of its proximity to the interstate, it's also very difficult for public safety personnel to get in there. It wasn't too long ago that we had a fire at one of the encampments, the previous encampment, and it's not easy for police or fire or rescue to get to these sites. The encampment on 95 is one of the most difficult ones we've seen.

The encampment on Houghton Street is relatively large and also secluded. Again, it is very difficult for public safety personnel to access. In that case, it's also a site with considerable environmental concerns, including some contaminated soils that were planned to have started the remediation process. Again, not a suitable place for people to be living.

Channel 12 Reporter: And when can people expect those vacate notices to go out?

Mayor Brett Smiley: It's already been noticed.

Wheeler Cowperthwaite, ProJo: There's a deficit of over 500 beds in the system. Where are people supposed to sleep?

Mayor Brett Smiley: We know that daily there are often vacancies in the shelter system. That fluctuates based upon time of year and frankly, week by week. As we go through our process, we regularly place people in shelter beds. We also know that for some folks, a shelter bed is not a suitable placement or not something that they're willing to do because they're not willing to be separated from a loved one or for many other valid reasons. We are, as fast as we can, aggressively trying to increase the amount of affordable housing in the city, transitional housing in the city. The City of Providence is investing more than we've ever invested before in both emergency shelter beds and in more long-term solutions. And as we work through this housing crisis, we need to do all of the above, and that's what we've tried to do.

Wheeler Cowperthwaite [Providence Journal]: But the vacancy rates like four or five percent. 500 people don't have shelter beds. So let's say that a hundred beds open up, that's still 400 people who are sleeping on the street. Where are they supposed to go? There aren't enough beds. Even if there is a small population of chronically homeless, there aren't enough beds. Where are people supposed to go if the encampments close?

Mayor Brett Smiley: [For] either the encampments or just the broader community of the unhoused, this is why it's so important that we do this in partnership with providers because it is a case-by-case basis. We know over the months that there will be hotel vouchers available, or a shelter bed becomes available. People's circumstances change. Again, this is not the city's expertise, which is why we work through providers who work with this community regularly to try to find individualized solutions to every single person's unique circumstances.

We acknowledge it is tragic that there are some folks for whom there is not a solution today. The flip side of that same coin, however, is the unsuitability and the lack of safety for some of these living environments. It is not safe for anyone to have people living on an embankment of an interstate highway, so we try to be fair and consistent in the process through which we go through and we try to expand long-term solutions and emergency solutions daily. It's the tragedy of this housing crisis that there are not enough solutions daily, but that does not mean that we can allow people to live in truly unsafe circumstances. So we do the best we can.

Steve Ahlquist: Are they moving into safer circumstances?

Mayor Brett Smiley: Like I said, it is on a case-by-case basis. In our experience over the last year, there will be individuals, it's usually single-digit individuals, who will find a different better solution. Then, many will not. But we keep working on it and we keep advocating at the federal level and the state level. At the city level, which is the only place where I have true responsibility or control, we keep doing more and more - spending over $3 million in emergency homelessness funding last year, which was more than the year before. I'm sure we will do more next year [while] at the same time, calling on the state to increase funding options.

Two weeks ago I was in Washington with 40 other mayors advocating for additional funding from the federal government. So I'm trying, and my colleagues around the country and my colleagues around Rhode Island are trying to address this at every possible level, federal, state, and local. It is a tragic situation because we know there are no perfect solutions and there are no adequate solutions today, but we have to balance the needs of everyone and also understand the true risks that exist in some of these existing encampments.

Steve Ahlquist: Are these people criminals?

Mayor Brett Smiley: I don't think so. I mean, as we talked about earlier, I haven't met the people living in these encampments, but they're not criminals for being homeless.

Steve Ahlquist: Why involve the police then?

Mayor Brett Smiley: Because it is the police's responsibility to vacate folks from either trespassing or from other unsafe circumstances involving the unhoused and throughout the city. That's just part of their responsibilities.

Steve Ahlquist: Do you think this [eviction] is following the Homeless Bill of Rights? Do you think this is in any way keeping with that?

Mayor Brett Smiley: I'm sure that's a question for the city's law department, and I'm sure advocates will press their case if they believe they have one.

Steve Ahlquist: They have.

Wheeler Cowperthwaite ProJo: I still don't have an answer to the question of where the people who are moved from this encampment are supposed to go because there aren't any shelter beds. The shelter beds that exist are essentially only for people who are sick, dying, disabled, or in a wheelchair. Where are these people who are going to be displaced supposed to go?

Mayor Brett Smiley: As I said, caseworkers and service providers from our partners. It's not done by the city, but through partners who have a contract with the city. That is another way in which we invest in trying to address this very real crisis. They work on an individual basis with folks who are living in these encampments and it is a wide range of options. So there's no - you're looking for an answer of where a folks' supposed to go, and I'm telling you the answer is case-by-case.

Wheeler Cowperthwaite ProJo: And I'm telling you that I've talked to the providers and they say that there aren't any shelter beds and they don't have anywhere to place people. So I'm asking you where they're supposed to go.

Mayor Brett Smiley: There are often vacancies in our shelter system and they would admit that as well. At large, there are not enough shelter beds. We all know that. But on a daily and weekly basis, there are available shelter beds, and sometimes some of the people who are living in these encampments will take that option. Sometimes there are hotel vouchers available. Sometimes people's circumstances change because they've received funding either because of some benefit that they receive or otherwise. And then they have a solution for some time until their money runs out again. No one feels good about this circumstance. This is a real problem and a tragedy and [it is] one of the greatest challenges facing our city and many cities throughout Rhode Island.

Wheeler Cowperthwaite ProJo: Is it better for people to stop sleeping in encampments and instead start sleeping on the streets or in more public areas?

Mayor Brett Smiley: Sleeping in encampments is sleeping on the streets and it's not something that we should aspire to for anyone.

Steve Ahlquist: Neither of these encampments are on the streets.

Wheeler Cowperthwaite ProJo: I mean, literally on the streets. If they're not allowed to live in encampments because they're too dangerous, then are they supposed to live on the streets? I don't understand where they're supposed to go.

Mayor Brett Smiley: Having an encampment adjacent to an interstate highway where public safety personnel cannot access where cars are traveling 80 miles an hour feet away, is not an acceptable or safe situation. In my view, [it is ]no different than, as you would phrase it, sleeping on the streets. It's not acceptable and it's not acceptable for them. It shouldn't be what we should aspire [to] for anyone in the United States of America - to live in circumstances under which they should live. But we also cannot allow for folks to be congregating in a setting where in the past we have had overdoses, we have had fires, we have had other crises where we cannot access or provide services in any sort of an acceptable, timely manner because of the difficulty to access these locations.

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