Exclusive interview with DEM Climate Justice Specialist Chris Gaynor about new EJ policy
"I'm of the mindset that 'this better not go on a shelf.'"
Two weeks ago the Rhode Island Department of Environmental Management [DEM] announced an environmental justice [EJ] policy that “prioritizes and incorporates fairness and justice in all agency programs and initiatives.” You can access the policy here.
According to the DEM press release, “the policy touches on every aspect of DEM’s operations, from recruiting and hiring more people of color in permanent and seasonal positions to directing solutions at the historic and disproportionate burden of environmental hazards faced by minority and low-income communities in Rhode Island.”
I spoke to DEM Climate Justice Specialist Chris Gaynor, via Zoom, to discuss the policy. Chris was hired specifically to craft and promulgate this policy about one year ago.
Steve Ahlquist: We spoke about your position as an Environmental Justice lead at DEM when we first met, at a Washington Park Neighborhood Association meeting that was mostly about renewing the leases in the Port of Providence.
Chris Gaynor: I remember it was a rich conversation that got to a point where I was unable to talk because the meeting ran out of time.
Steve Ahlquist: The Port issue was taking all the air out of the room, but pointedly, is related to the environmental justice issues you're working on.
My first question is, can tell me, in your own words, what is Environmental Justice and why is it important?
Chris Gaynor: That's an interesting question. It's simple to ask, but I'm thinking about it from the role I'm currently in. What is environmental justice? There's me from an individual level, philosophically, but there's also a professional point of view, as DEM's Climate Justice Specialist.
Environmental Justice, to me, is the true, fair treatment and inclusion of all persons, regardless of background, regardless of ethnicity, regardless of where you come from, being involved in the conversations regarding the decisions that are made that impact the environment you live in, use, and recreate in, and also to the use of the environment as a resource.
For me, being housed in the Department of Environmental Management means seeing the systems and the institutions already in place, and looking through programs and policies that have been produced, on top of the strategic goals to ensure that we're not ignoring people or the concerns of those we serve.
In the friendliest of terms, I seem to be the only person on staff representative of the communities that are most impacted. That's a problem. My intention with this policy is to change how we view things. From the philosophical point of view of environmental justice, this goes even deeper. It means not just the persons or individuals that are most impacted, but everyone and everything. This is where the climate justice part connects with environmental justice.
I have the privilege of living at the US Rubber Lofts. The lofts have been refurbished, from an old factory to apartments, and I'm right across the street from the Greenway. There's green space that's been introduced into this long, underinvested area near Valley Street, and I'm grateful for that. However, when I left my apartment this morning, I saw that US Rubber Lofts was not using real grass, but turf that's faux green. That's strange and annoying. As I go through the greenway, it's beautiful. It lets me lose myself and feel connected to not just the community that I'm in, but the natural elements that have allowed me to understand and appreciate what natural elements exist in Rhode Island.
Then I get to Promenade Street, and it opens up into a wide concrete desert that is beyond hot. On top of that, I'm crossing this weird intersection of highways where four different roads connect. I have lived here now for 10 or so months, and that's the intersection where I was nearly hit by a car four times because no one knew what to do. Everyone's trying to accelerate to get to the highway, the gas station or just get home. It's just not safe.
And this is lauded as the new bike path we have. I've spoken to cyclists. They don't feel safe there.
Continuing my walk, I see the ash trees along the way. They are broken. They're split to avoid the power lines. Why aren't these power lines buried? I'm from Florida and all of our stuff is buried. We experience hurricanes and flooding. Burying the power lines is something that should be done so at a minimum, we can allow trees to be trees.
And this is just me walking to work every day, just a small part of my experience as the privileged person that I am. I can only imagine what it's like for those who have lived here all of their lives and don't have even a park available. I complain about the traffic and me getting hit and whatnot, but we're up against the highway itself. From a philosophical point of view and my personal experiences, environmental justice is making sure that no one experiences these things.
Steve Ahlquist: There's so much stuff you touched on there. That's the 6/10 connector currently being rebuilt much the same way it's always been without taking into account the call to reconnect the neighborhoods. Instead, we just did the same old thing.
If the Department of Transportation had the worldview you just expressed, maybe we'd engineer a different outcome for that area. Now we're 30 years away from anything new happening there because we're not going to put all these dollars into this project just to rebuild it again in 10 years. It's a lost opportunity.
Don't take any offense here, but many times when policies like this are prepared by agencies, it's put up on a shelf and forgotten. There are a lot of plans and policies on shelves in Rhode Island. They are regarded, at best, as aspirations for some distant time. As in, "If we could afford to do this we'd do it" or "If we had the staff to do this, we'd do it." Is this new EJ policy going to be different? And how would it be different?
Chris Gaynor: I love that question because I'm of the mindset that "this better not go on a shelf." I put time into this. I have a personal, vested interest in ensuring that this policy is incorporated into every single program across DEM. So to the question of how do we avoid it being put on the shelf, the honest answer is me. To make those intentional, thoughtful efforts to not repeat the same mistakes as have been made in the past, I am that step forward.
This policy won't be just sitting on a shelf because I was brought on to push this, develop it, and bring in community members. All of this was tasked to me, by the director of DEM. The director's office is very invested in the policy and how it's incorporated. Going further, I'm working quite closely with DEM Chief of Staff Amanda Cantrell saying, "Hey, different agencies and departments, have you seen this policy yet?" We've sent out multiple internal emails. "Have you seen this? Have you looked at it over?" to the point of I think we're being annoying. But this is necessary.
After the policy's release last week, three different parts of DEM have reached out to me to discuss how they might engage the community properly. So the fact that the director is pushing this, the fact that our office is pushing this, and that, even at a higher tier, the governor is pushing us to make sure that this is reflective. This is what gives me hope that this policy will not be put on a shelf.
And if it does get put on a shelf, then the implication, after hiring someone who looks like me in a position like this, and then not even considering what this policy can do, I don't think DEM would recover. A lot of investment has been put in by DEM to create that credibility, to curate that trust. In my experience here, in comparison to other agencies, DEM is one of the more trusted spaces because there are people on the staff who interact with the public. It might not be to the satisfaction of what the public may need, but they're interacting and engaging. When we're at a loss as to what else can we do, this policy comes in to tell us what else can we do.
Steve Ahlquist: In the press release, DEM subtly acknowledges that they haven't always prioritized the concerns of EJ communities in their decisions. I think of this in terms of DEM as the primary mover on some things, and also in their advisory role when they're asked about judging environmental impacts for other agencies. This policy could impact DEM in both of these spaces. Given that, how does this policy set the stage to rectify these past mistakes?
Chris Gaynor: I have two thoughts that I hope will answer the question. The first thought is this policy is not a mandate. We can't require anyone to do anything. I wish I could, but here we are. However, because of this investment, there will be reconsideration within programs, strategic goals, and each agency of what obstacles currently exist as to why we are unable to take actions on behalf of the public who have provided all of these environmental justice complaints.
Maybe, if the data doesn't show that this is what's happening, we can work out what part of our metrics is wrong. To that end, the policy should prompt a reevaluation of the system. The fact that this policy exists, the fact that I am here, means we're doing things differently.
The other thought is that the policy is not a mandate. The federal dollars that are coming in regarding infrastructure, be this environmental remediation or just general Justice 40 initiatives, have requirements. The Biden-Harris administration is requiring, at least in the grants that I have been a part of, applicants to work with community-based organizations and environmental justice organizations with neighborhood associations - the people who've been saying, this time, "We are the experts here. We live here." As I see it, if you want to fund any of these ideas or plans that we've developed, you have to work with the community, or else, according to my Environmental Protection Agency [EPA] representative, the grant will not be looked at.
Steve Ahlquist: I don't want to get too much into specific, current issues, but I do want to touch on one issue that was brought to me by some residents in Pawtucket regarding DEM not properly enforcing some National Park Service mandates around green space. There's green space that's supposed to be protected under grants. It turns out that Pawtucket may have converted protected green space without notifying DEM and without DEM taking a legally mandated protective stance about these green spaces. How might this policy help in a situation like this? I've read that the policy is going to help DEM to reprioritize where they put their thoughts and actions. Is that the kind of place where it might happen? Or is that too specific?
Chris Gaynor: No, you're asking really good questions that specifically, for Pawtucket, I do not have the answer to. The example that I would use in how this policy could apply to Pawtucket is I'm thinking of a recent event that I attended, the Gotham Greens ribbon cutting ceremony, where that bike path was being developed. I had no idea at the time about how big of a project that was, how many folks were invested in this thing, that this was a DOT and DEM project. Senators Sheldon Whitehouse, Jack Reed, and the governor were very excited about the collaborative process.
And each of them, to some degree, used whatever negotiations that occurred to invest aspects of the budget into that place. For DEM, it was a trails grant that we were able to tie to as a creative way of moving things. I was impressed by the coordination of all these players, especially knowing what I know about each individual in their departments and how sometimes it might be difficult to negotiate with each other, but it came together. So, though I might not have an answer for Pawtucket right now, what I can see is different parts of DEM coordinating with different other agencies to do something.
Steve Ahlquist: The next step seems to be implementing the Environmental Justice policy into DEM’s strategic plan. You'll be sitting in on those meetings, I'm sure, talking about how the strategic plan will reflect the new Environmental Justice policy. This will in turn affect the budget requests from DEM for the FY 2025 budget. What does that process look like, and what will be your involvement in helping to figure out the DEM strategic plan going forward?
Chris Gaynor: We've recently undergone environmental justice and equity training for the Executive Coordinating Climate Change Council [EC4], as well as their advisory board, who have set the foundation for what environmental justice and equity is. Within Rhode Island, these are the metrics that we can follow. We're saying, “Please take this to your respective departments and go apply it and figure out how it can be incorporated into your programs, strategic goals, and policies.”
We recognize that environmental justice is an entirely new term for a lot of people. My next task in the implementation phase is going to each of the folks within DEM, the Office of Water, Office of Air, land revitalization, agriculture, and forestry planning, and explain that this is environmental justice. This is how the policy may be used within your programs. Consider these things as you're going through the work that you're doing. Has the Office of Water ever thought of working with the Office of Planning regarding stormwater remediation and the creation of bioswales, for example? My job, for the next phase of implementation, is tapping into that internal discussion and dissolving silos. That's a lot of presentations I'll be doing.
The Environmental Protection Agency will be coming in the next month or so to do a federal review of environmental justice and explain the available funds.
Steve Ahlquist: I know the document has only been out for a day or so publicly, but what have been the reactions you've been hearing from the environmental justice communities you've been working with? Have they been positive? Have you gotten any feedback?
Chris Gaynor: Reaction has been - cautious. It could be mostly because of what you asked me early on, that is, What is stopping this policy from being just put on a shelf?
The credibility that currently exists in DEM that this policy is going to be implemented is the trust that I build with those communities. It will be me vouching for the policy and respecting the experiences of people.
Steve Ahlquist: Many of these communities have experienced some stark treatment in the past.
Chris Gaynor: Until I'm able to successfully implement these ideas, they are going to be cautious. I can't say optimistic, can't say pessimistic. There's a wait-and-see vibe that I'm getting that I completely understand. I've received feedback as regards certain adjustments to the language of the policy, for example. As I shared in the press release, this policy is reflective of as many people as I could incorporate. This includes all sorts of stakeholders, not just the environmental justice folks, though I do prioritize their viewpoints. But that viewpoint is up against others to create, publish, and produce a document that parties agree to.
Steve Ahlquist: I think that when we include certain stakeholders, it's like including the mob in a discussion about what kind of criminal policies we're going to enforce. They'll say, "We don't want a blanket ban on murder because you never know who we're going to need to whack." Why are we bringing in what I would consider climate criminals into these discussions to talk about what environmental justice looks like when their point of view is the opposite of what we need? This applies across the board for a lot of state policies - housing, for instance.
I often think, "Why is this guy even here? He owns a huge polluting industry in the Port, and he's in this room talking about what environmental justice is?" What environmental justice is, to some people is money.
No need for a comment, I don't want to get you in trouble.
Is there anything I should have asked that I didn't or anything you were prepared to say that you want to address?
Chris Gaynor: The question I would've loved to receive is that right now the state of Rhode Island has two known representatives of communities, justice, and equity, and that is myself and Greg Ohadoma, the Energy Justice Manager in the Office of Energy Resources. What actions are other state agencies taking to follow the practice of the DEM? The question to ask is, “Chris, do you know any other work that is being done at other state agencies that are similar to what this policy is reflective of?” And the answer is, “No.”
For me to be most effective at my job, to be most effective at making this policy real, as well as reaching the goals that we’re discussing, everyone in the state needs to be involved. It can't just be me and Greg. We need more people who have insider ability in these offices to push stuff like this because I'm being spread thin. I'm doing DEM stuff, being pulled into DOH and DOT stuff. Because I'm the representative of climate justice, and because I have a government tag to my name, I can enter these rooms.
Steve Ahlquist: Last year the General Assembly was considering some environmental justice regulations to define what an environmental justice zone would be, to dedicate resources or money to those zones. They were not able to pass that legislation. Are you involved in any discussions with any of the legislators who are working on that? Are you helping to shape that legislation?
Chris Gaynor: I am a part of the conversation of what that language can look like. I wouldn't say I'm super involved, but I have been privy to review it. I have a good working relationship with the sponsor, State Senator Dawn Euer (Democrat, District 13, Newport, Jamestown), so the relationships are there and the conversations are happening. I was disappointed that it didn't pass
At DEM we are doing our best to align with the proposed legislation. We are trying to define exactly what an environmental justice focus area is. How can we, once this passes, immediately take action and point out what DEM can do to support?
Steve Ahlquist: I appreciate your time. Thank you so much.
Chris Gaynor: Cool. Thank you, Steve.
From the press release:
“This is an intentional step to put EJ at the center of what we do because, historically in Rhode Island, neither environmental burdens nor environmental benefits including investment in infrastructure have been shared equally,” wrote DEM Director Terry Gray in the press release. “DEM recognizes that all Rhode Islanders deserve to live in healthy, thriving communities, but too many people lack access to safe places to live, work, learn, play, and grow. The feedback we have received has come from all our division chiefs and staff members who weighed in on the policy, and most importantly from our community stakeholders whom we serve. The public expects more from DEM and DEM has a key role in making Rhode Island a just place. We are stepping up.”
EJ means all Rhode Islanders – regardless of income, race, ethnicity, national origin, or zip code – have a right to live in a clean and healthy environment and to access environmental amenities like parks, playgrounds, and outdoor spaces. For several years, DEM has embedded EJ considerations into some environmental protection initiatives such as community-scale air toxics monitoring in the EJ neighborhoods surrounding the Port of Providence and the assessment and remediation of brownfield sites that often are located in low-wealth communities across the state.
With the adoption of the new policy, however, “DEM’s ongoing obligation is to incorporate EJ considerations into all of the Department’s programs, policies, and activities, and elevate important environmental issues that have a significant impact on EJ focus areas,” the agency’s commitment statement says. It continues, “DEM will work with local government and community partners to assist with ongoing efforts toward diversifying DEM’s workforce by identifying top talent, permanent and summer job placement, and internship opportunities. Taking these important and intentional steps will support DEM’s commitment to strengthen the Department and better serve and reflect the needs of communities.”
“This was no small undertaking,” said DEM Climate Justice Specialist Chris Gaynor. “It took our team six months to consider and incorporate every person’s feedback into this policy. We genuinely did our best to have ample representation from Rhode Island communities, ensuring that our approach toward community organizations, neighborhood groups, faith communities, elected officials, and advocates for marginalized communities, including low-income communities and communities of color, reflects that of a participatory community decision-making process and bottom-up planning. We have a responsibility as an environmental authority to not take on this work isolated from the communities most impacted by structures of environmental oppression and risk. The communities most impacted by environmental hazards are those who have the most to offer in organizing for environmental justice outcomes. Let’s continue following their lead.”
DEM announced it was seeking input on its draft EJ policy in March. Since then, it has held many conversations, getting broad feedback and buy-in on the language both externally and internally
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What a fabulous interview!